Ontario owners: how long does it take to receive the government rebate?

[Mrj]

Just email the addresses mentioned in this thread. No receipt received, but I got a response from "Program Compliance MTO"

After my repeated emails asking for details of appeals procedure I got an email stating that they considered my email as “appeal filed”. The email was signed EHVIP team. They also asked me to tell my dealer to send them documents proving they had sent the list - same old excuse

 

[jstephens]

After my repeated emails asking for details of appeals procedure I got an email stating that they considered my email as “appeal filed”. The email was signed EHVIP team. They also asked me to tell my dealer to send them documents proving they had sent the list - same old excuse

We sent our MPP the CBC story, their office replied that they are still waiting to hear back from the MTO. We are writing letters to the Minister of Transportation and the Minister of Finance separately, everyone affected should do so. We are all owed a response.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toro...3Kdb3ca6L_v6q6_KVGAJTth-NHMOnkrdHbxsKqFWJJJgw
Hon. Victor Fedeli | Minister of Finance | [email protected]
Hon. Jeff Yurek | Ministry of Transportation | [email protected]

 

[CWilson]

Does anyone have any idea how many people were denied?

 

[jstephens]

Does anyone have any idea how many people were denied?

No, I don't. I feel like there are a higher proportion of e-Golfs affected, but that's probably because that's what mine is, so I notice them all. At least 50?

 

[lordplum]

Does anyone have any idea how many people were denied?

My BMW dealership said 11 customers affected at their dealership alone. Enough other dealerships affected for BMW Canada to be involved.

 

[CWilson]

My BMW dealership said 11 customers affected at their dealership alone. Enough other dealerships affected for BMW Canada to be involved.

We really need everyone to connect.

 

[rbyow]

I don't see how else this can get solved for people involved except with class actions against the manufacturers or dealers for not complying with MTO directive. They can then separately go after the MTO.

With most e-Golfs, VW Canada took in all the orders and has all customer order information in their system. Don't see why they could not have complied with MTO directive. MTO is clear they communicated with all manufacturers.

Tesla went after the MTO because they were unfairly treated. Now it's up to us, the people, to do the same but starting with the manufacturers/dealers that did not do their part.

 

[CWilson]

I don't know where we will fit in. We picked up our car in Quebec on July 13th after speaking with the Ministry of Finance that day and the day before. Out of province dealers weren't contacted. In province dealers were contacted on the 13th (this cannot have been clear because the Ministry of Finance didn't even know about it). I understand wanting to blame the dealers, but I fault the Gov. Shouldn't they have informed consumers (their taxpayers and applicants) and the Ministry of Finance? They didn't even put it on their EVIP site until the 31st of August.

 

[rbyow]

I don't know where we will fit in. We picked up our car in Quebec on July 13th after speaking with the Ministry of Finance that day and the day before. Out of province dealers weren't contacted. In province dealers were contacted on the 13th (this cannot have been clear because the Ministry of Finance didn't even know about it). I understand wanting to blame the dealers, but I fault the Gov. Shouldn't they have informed consumers (their taxpayers and applicants) and the Ministry of Finance? They didn't even put it on their EVIP site until the 31st of August.

I agree, everyone can get together and fault the govt. Or easier is to fault the manufacturers which have all order information in their database.

Best to have a class action law firm advise.

 

[NotHappy]

Just spent last 3 days trying to sort out rebate debacle for my Pacifica. In summary my appeal was denied as my vehicle was not registered on the list. MTO sent the new rebate changes to the manufacturers (Chrysler Canada in my case). My dealership,NorthYork Chrysler, says they were never notified by Chrysler Canada of any need to register vehicles and in fact they found my Pacifica in Quebec and had it shipped over in September just before the deadline. I was sceptical but they insisted it was all legit. I asked if they would put it in writing that this vehicle qualified for the rebate and they insisted this wasn’t necessary as they did this all the time.
Now the dealership states the problem is with Chrysler Canada not passing on the rebate changes from July 2018.
So now I will have to contact Chrysler Canada to verify this.

 

[lordplum]

No sign of anything helpful yet, but at least it's a response. Will see what she does with my dealer's name. TBH, I think she'll just confirm that they didn't send the order info on time, and tell me my claim is denied. I will keep you posted.

Update: As expected, Zina at Program Compliance (MTO) got back to me today and just confirmed that my car wasn't on the July 16 list, so the denial decision stands. She finished off with "I would encourage you to reach out to the dealership and the OEM to advocate your case".

 

[Rivek_egolfowner]

Back in town again, and just reviewing the thread - doesn't appear to be much good news. I did review the CBC and Toronto Star articles. I wasn't impressed by Ellen's Roseman's last comment: essentially a snub to all EV buyers who shouldn't trust the gov't to stand by their rebates, and don't buy an EV if you can't afford it without the rebate, Really Ellen! - if we can't trust the Ontario gov't, who can we trust, and it wasn't so much a rebate as it was an "incentive" program -- EHVIP -- the 'I' standing for incentive. Sure I suppose I could tighten my belt for the next several years to afford my e-golf if lose the 14K. and yes had it not been for the incentive I likely would have bought another gasoline engine vehicle. I was perfect candidate. I owned a VW diesel - part of the diesel scandal, and I bought a VW e-golf. I went from extreme polluter to essentially a zero emissions vehicle because of the incentive. I'm a flippin' EV poster boy for pete's sakes. And now we all seem to be getting screwed by a change in gov't.

In other news, the Ontario Ombudsman returned my called. He asked if my dealer confirmed that I was on the list. I said yes, and he said if that is definitely the case I should receive a reversal notice and that it's just a matter of time. He also said to call him back either way with an update. It sounds like the Ombudsman office has eyes on this situation. Reading between the lines he gave me the impression that this fiasco may be bumped up to a higher level within the Ombudsman's office. They're taking this seriously, and a wait and see approach - waiting to see if this is a clerical error and how many consumers might have reversal notices and how would be denied.

I also spoke with my VW dealer rep., and once again he was calm and told me to sleep well and that that everything will be fine. In fact he said he expected that reversal notices would have arrived at the end of last week for his e-golf customers. He said that it should be sorted out soon. Well I'm trying to sleep, but it's not easy.

I think everyone should continue to send emails and write letters and keep putting the pressure on. Even those that received reversal letters, it would be nice if you could continue to contact MPPs and media in solidarity with your less fortunate fellow EV owners. This matter leaves a bad taste in my mouth. If I lose my incentive I'll at least look forward telling the next PC candidate that knocks on my door that I have 14 thousand reasons why I'll never vote PC.

 

[Gill36]

Just joining this forum adding my 2 cents worth, (e-golf owner Yorkdale VW, seems like their are a few of us all in the same boat). I have also contacted the ombudsman office who essentially told me to go back to the dealer and get a copy of the initial submission sent to the MTO back in July of last year, needless to say this is proving to be exceedingly difficult. MTO position is the OEM's were notified and it was the OEM's responsibility to notify the dealers. In a nut shell everyone is passing the buck whilst as usual the consumer gets hosed. I agree with rbyow, it might take a class action to get movement.

 

[Jason1234]

In this case, the fault is with the car manufacturers, they should inform their dealers about the requirement. The 'list' is there to prevent fault, like getting cars from other provinces that are clearly not intended to be sold in Ontario; or cars that are not even in production.

As a consumer, you know you are dealing with a dealer, who is the middle man, they buy cars and resell to you. You need to make sure you are qualified, ask questions, phone MTO and talked to different people there. If you cannot afford the car without incentive, then you should get some assurance in writing. If the dealer cannot or unwilling to give you written confirmation, just walked away. The best situation is some dealers deduct the $14,000 from the price on the spot, those dealers know they have to make sure the cars qualified.

Of course, hindsight is 20/20.

 

[lordplum]

In this case, the fault is with the car manufacturers, they should inform their dealers about the requirement. The 'list' is there to prevent fault, like getting cars from other provinces that are clearly not intended to be sold in Ontario; or cars that are not even in production.

As a consumer, you know you are dealing with a dealer, who is the middle man, they buy cars and resell to you. You need to make sure you are qualified, ask questions, phone MTO and talked to different people there. If you cannot afford the car without incentive, then you should get some assurance in writing. If the dealer cannot or unwilling to give you written confirmation, just walked away. The best situation is some dealers deduct the $14,000 from the price on the spot, those dealers know they have to make sure the cars qualified.

Of course, hindsight is 20/20.

ask questions: everyone did this at a minimum
phone MTO: many people did this as well
get some assurance in writing: dealers are required to sign a guarantee that the car qualifies for the rebate on the application (section K3). Not sure if this will ultimately help us though.
The best situation is some dealers deduct the $14,000 from the price on the spot: this is a fair point, but like you said hindsight is 20/20

Just curious, why did you join this forum and post? Are you one of the people affected?

 

[NotHappy]

Just spoke to Ontario Ombudsman Office. They can at best only make recommendations to govt which are nonbinding. He didn’t sound hopeful.
Personally I think this will require legal action. Anyone contact a lawyer yet for advice?
In response to Jason1234 above I would say first and foremost the dealership should be sure the car is eligible for the rebate before calling up customers to say,’
“Great news, we found you that hybrid and it’s totally eligible for the rebate! “
Buyer beware.

 

[Jason1234]

ask questions: everyone did this at a minimum
phone MTO: many people did this as well
get some assurance in writing: dealers are required to sign a guarantee that the car qualifies for the rebate on the application (section K3). Not sure if this will ultimately help us though.
The best situation is some dealers deduct the $14,000 from the price on the spot: this is a fair point, but like you said hindsight is 20/20

Just curious, why did you join this forum and post? Are you one of the people affected?

I did order a EV before Ford took office. Seeing how he handled the wind down, and how he promised a ORDERLY wind down, and how Tesla was being denied, so when my dealer told me my EV was ready for pick up. The first question is, of course, am I eligible, and he keeps on saying I am. At that point, I tell him I will make some calls first and get back to him within couple of days, and please reserved the car for me.

I then call MTO, since they are the one that is responsible. The first lady has no idea of what I talking about and just read out what she find out in the website. Not comfortable about the answer, so I call back later that day and talk to another person. She says I'm eligible as long as I meet the criteria that is set out, and I ask her point blank how does the government know that vehicle is in the lot or in transit for an order. At the point, she says that is a good question and let her do some checking with her manager and get back to me. Long story short, she gets back to me and tell me they send out an email to all car manufacturers and ask them to provide a list, and also advise them to tell their own dealers about making sure the vehicle is in the list. Since they are the one that will know where and who the dealers are.

At that point, I get back to the dealer and ask him about the list, the salesman has no idea of what I am talking about, just keep saying no worries, you are eligible. I tell him to talk to the manager and get me the list. Eventually, he come back with the list (basically a email to the manufacturer and cc to MTO. At that point, I go ahead with the order.

The guarantee in the application means nothing since it is always to the best of their knowledge, if they don't know about the list, they may not be liable; and I don't want to have to take a legal avenue. My point is very simple, if I am not 100% sure I will get the rebate, the deal is off, it is just a car. The deal is attractive only because of the rebate. I get the rebate 7 months later...

 

[lordplum]

I did order a EV before Ford took office. Seeing how he handled the wind down, and how he promised a ORDERLY wind down, and how Tesla was being denied, so when my dealer told me my EV was ready for pick up. The first question is, of course, am I eligible, and he keeps on saying I am. At that point, I tell him I will make some calls first and get back to him within couple of days, and please reserved the car for me.

I then call MTO, since they are the one that is responsible. The first lady has no idea of what I talking about and just read out what she find out in the website. Not comfortable about the answer, so I call back later that day and talk to another person. She says I'm eligible as long as I meet the criteria that is set out, and I ask her point blank how does the government know that vehicle is in the lot or in transit for an order. At the point, she says that is a good question and let her do some checking with her manager and get back to me. Long story short, she gets back to me and tell me they send out an email to all car manufacturers and ask them to provide a list, and also advise them to tell their own dealers about making sure the vehicle is in the list. Since they are the one that will know where and who the dealers are.

At that point, I get back to the dealer and ask him about the list, the salesman has no idea of what I am talking about, just keep saying no worries, you are eligible. I tell him to talk to the manager and get me the list. Eventually, he come back with the list (basically a email to the manufacturer and cc to MTO. At that point, I go ahead with the order.

The guarantee in the application means nothing since it is always to the best of their knowledge, if they don't know about the list, they may not be liable; and I don't want to have to take a legal avenue. My point is very simple, if I am not 100% sure I will get the rebate, the deal is off, it is just a car. The deal is attractive only because of the rebate. I get the rebate 7 months later...

Interesting. You were very thorough and diligent in your research. I spoke to my salesperson the day the press release came out about the cancellation of the EHVIP program, and asked specifically about the clause where the order had to be made prior to the July 11 deadline. I was assured that my vehicle qualified (my car was in transit to the dealership from the manufacturer at that point in time) and that my VIN would be registered with the Ministry. I also emailed the Ministry, but did not receive a response. I guess I could have followed up with the Ministry, but didn't really feel like I had any reason to doubt my eligibility.

 

[CWilson]

Once again, I am going to say this. Prior to July 11th, people bought cars out of province and were eligible for the incentive as residents of Ontario, plating the car for the first time in Ontario. There was nothing in the press release or on the EVIP website from July 11th-13th that would indicate this had changed. But, because the program had been cancelled right after we ordered our car, we CALLED the 1-800-makesureyourcariseligible# twice to confirm that it was. The second time we called, we were told that they would not provide it in writing and NOT TO WORRY because lots of people had purchased their cars out of province before - which means the ministry of finance had no knowledge of the list at this time. The left hand didn't know what the right hand was doing! This was 2 hours before we purchased the car. We bought it directly from an out of province dealer. This incentive was NOT about boosting the Ontario economy. It was about putting EVs on Ontario roads. Anyone who ordered their car before the 11th of July should receive the incentive. Anything else is ridiculous. It doesn't matter if you are wealthy or poor, it is unethical to deny the incentive to anyone who met the criteria that was released publicly and was in the evip application. Why the SECRET LIST was never shared publicly in the news or on their website is beyond me. I would assume it was a cost cutting tactic. But if they really wanted to cut costs, why not just cancel the program completely without fading it out. If the secret list had been made public, then dealers and consumers could be held responsible. BUT IT WASN'T - it was put on the EVIP website on August 31st and dated July 11th. Sneaky, unethical, bullies. Rant over.

 

[Jason1234]

To be blunk, I really don't see any other avenue except to sue the government, the dealers and the manufacturers especially. However, how many people are willing to shell out more money to go to court. We may have at most 50 people (not me) that are affected. The only viable route for average buyer is to go to small claim court, the last time I checked, the limit is $25,000, but it's lots of work. I would suggest you guys organize a meeting and bring all those interested party together.

Unlike Tesla, they claimed that they have around 600 orders that were affected, of course, they will sue, and they have lawyers already.