NHTSA scrutinizes Tesla's OTA updates to fix safety issues

  • Thread starter Thread starter R P
  • Start date Start date
  • Replies Replies 20
  • Views Views 10K
R P said:
Without a Recall notice, users may not be aware of the safety issue.
Click to expand...

I don't know how you can say that.

From Tesla's web site. https://www.tesla.com/support/software-updates

"Tesla will notify you through an alert on your car’s touchscreen and Tesla app."

Certainly, this method is better than a postcard in the mail that you may or may not see, or ignore.

If you choose to ignore an update, then that's a personal choice.

Plus, don't the instructions state that autopilot doesn't react to stationary objects? I believe Ford states the same thing for their system. It seems to me it's not a defect if it was never meant to detect stationary objects in the first place.

The NHTSA has their Jockey shorts all tied up in a knot over nothing.
 
Last edited:
Well, according to the article the NHTSA and other safety experts don't agree with you. The investigation wouldn't be happening if there were no accidents using AutoPilot and FSD.

And saying that AutoPilot doesn't react to stationary objects makes no sense. What good is it then? I know other other cars that do. Isn't that what FCA is all about? Both of my cars have it, and I get an insurance discount because of that. Does that not happen with Tesla?
 
R P said:
Well, according to the article the NHTSA and other safety experts don't agree with you. The investigation iwouldn't be happening if there were no accidents using AutoPilot and FSD.
Click to expand...

If they were serious about stopping accidents, they would ban alcohol. or a least install breathalyzers in all vehicles.

This just a bureaucracy trying to justify their budget.
 
Last edited:
  • NHTSA announces a preliminary investigation.
  • A couple of weeks later, Tesla releases a potential fix release.
  • Someone wants to fine Tesla for not telling NHTSA soon enough.
Sounds like the right things were done but now NHTSA threatens a resentment fine on Tesla anyway.

Tesla should announce the law firm that will appeal the fine … Dewey, Ceatem, and Howel of Boston.

Bob Wilson
 
Last edited:
marshall said:
If they were serious about stopping accidents, they would ban alcohol. This just a bureaucracy trying to justify their budget.
Click to expand...
Where I live there is zero tolerance for alcohol (don't have to be over .05 or .08). If you fail the test, they impound your car and take away your licence for a period of time. Yet it does not stop all accidents.

Bit of a pain, as can't even have a drink when out for dinner now. But we have adapted, and always one designated driver now. At worst can call an org (forgot the name, volunteer group) that will come and pick you up and take you home. You had better give them at least a good tip though.
 
Install breathalyzers in all vehicles and listen to them scream, and watch the YouTube videos on how to defeat it. If the NHTSA is serious about stopping the killing, that's what they would mandate.

The autopilot nonsense is just a bureaucracy with their Jockeys all tied up in a knot.
 
marshall said:
Install breathalyzers in all vehicles and listen to them scream, and watch the YouTube videos on how to defeat it. If the NHTSA is serious about stopping the killing, that's what they would mandate.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't be surprised if that is coming.
 
R P said:
And saying that AutoPilot doesn't react to stationary objects makes no sense. What good is it then?
Click to expand...
Sure, we all turned it on and ran into the next overpass supports. Halloween this month and we’re all ghosts posting. <BOOOO!!!>

Good thing you have no AutoPilot expertise or experience. AutoPilot saved us from five potential crashes the fourth month of ownership.

Bob Wilson
 
NHTSA and I'm sure Tesla is unsure how to get every vehicle a guaranteed updated without a recall. I'm sure Tesla could rattle off statistics to support their effort but who is to say every owner uses the app or saw the notification. Howbeit a small possibility, recalls are about 100% compliance through multiple avenues for publications toward the effort.

The notion that NHTSA is concerned with mandating an "improvement" may not be a fully informed position. If the multiple emergency vehicles hit were in the lane of travel I'm not sure if an investigation in to a manufacturer would ever take place but rather the driver. If however the Tesla hit a stationary vehicle pulled off on the side of the road with flashing lights; that's when NHTSA would get involved. It is legal to stop in a lane of travel and on the side of the road in case of emergency for everyone. Staying there is subject to jurisdiction but most states do not allow personal vehicles to stop on the shoulder other than for emergencies.

Emergency vehicles are legally allowed to stop on the side of the road because they come equipped with certified indicators to alert people of this unusual circumstance. If those flashing lights caused an automated Tesla process to temporarily loose track of the lane and this wasn't indicated to the driver by demanding they take over immediately then a Tesla could theoretically loose its lane centering.

Tesla's are know to use the whole width of an on ramp lane and the right most lane when the right most lane right hand line disappears. The investigation is to understand what happened consecutively to lawfully stopped emergency vehicles on the side of the road.

Tesla obviously figured something out they needed to change but is it the cause of the documented cases of concern? NHTSA needs to know if this would have stopped the investigated issues had it been in place before, and know that every vehicle is either upgraded of disabled from using the feature that lead to these cases once their investigation confirms Tesla was correct and the measures were enough to avoid a lawfully stopped vehicle.

After reading Super Cruise, as an example, I was shocked of how much they said the system wouldn't do for things in your lane. It's not that emergency braking is impossible for the system but if they choose to leave the liability with the driver, then the driver should be fully aware of they responsibility that was placed in their lap. Ford's Blue Cruise appears to disengage when an on ramp joins along side and lane markings between the on ramp lane and right lane go away.

I don't think anyone is after anything but the facts and determination that the Tesla's were performing as designed and that that meets highway safety laws. One of which allows emergency vehicles to use the side of the road to conduct their work for an extended period of time.

Be safe out there, others are depending on you.
 
R P said:
Really!! Are you sure you should be driving?
Click to expand...
That was the reaction at a Tesla forum I dropped. Regardless, AutoPilot performed perfectly and paid for itself in the first four months. The only times I’ve had problems was with AutoPilot off. It does make driving significantly safer … as it should.

Bob Wilson
 
Last edited:
GaryClark said:
NHTSA and I'm sure Tesla is unsure how to get every vehicle a guaranteed updated without a recall. ...
Click to expand...
To load any software, Tesla uses a private VPN to encrypt the data. It uses the same secure mechanism to get data from each car including the version of running software. Perhaps you might explain what you skepticism about, "guaranteed updated", is based upon?

Bob Wilson
 
R P said:
And saying that AutoPilot doesn't react to stationary objects makes no sense. What good is it then?
Click to expand...
OK, autopilot may not react to all stationary objects. Is that better?

Note your Kona has several pages of warnings, some of which the FCA may not react to.

Both systems require you to pay attention and remain in control, as nether is a full self-driving system. Folks need to read and follow the instructions in their car's manual.
 
Last edited:
marshall said:
OK, autopilot may not react to all stationary objects. Is that better?

Note your Kona has several pages of warnings, some of which the FCA may not react to.

Both systems require you to pay attention and remain in control, as nether is a full self-driving system. Folks need to read and follow the instructions in their car's manual.
Click to expand...
Yes, of course, but why is that the Teslas keep hitting stationary objects. I don't hear about that about other cars with their FCA. Either it doesn't work as well, or Tesla owners are more prone to reliance on their AutoPilot.

My Kona FCA is a little trigger happy. I was used to my Subaru, which was very good in stop and go traffic and would start slowing earlier and not jam on the brakes at the last second. But if I came up too fast to a stopped car, it would slam on the brakes prematurely. I have since adapted to that, and has not it happened for a long time. I suspect maybe the software was changed along the way, too, to maybe work better. It still waits too long to start slowing down sometimes, though, and makes me nervous, so I don't really trust it.

But my Subaru is great in stop and go freeway traffic. I have all the parameters adjusted so that it slows down just right, and takes off fast enough so people don't jump into my lane. Takes a lot of stress out of heavy traffic driving. I have driven many times with my son in his M3, but similarly to the Kona it lags in stop and go traffic, and better to just drive manually in those situations. I don't believe the Tesla has the same parameters for slowing and taking off, just the distance, but could be wrong.

I do really like the lane change assist on the Kona, esp with the HUD (great situational awareness while keep your eyes on the road). It lets me know early enough when I want to change lanes, when a car might be coming up in the lane. It has both a visual alert and then a beep warning if you turn your signal on. And if you try changing into a coming car, you will probably feel the steering wheel yank (I have never done that).
 
R P said:
Yes, of course, but why is that the Teslas keep hitting stationary objects. I don't hear about that about other cars with their FCA. Either it doesn't work as well, or Tesla owners are more prone to reliance on their AutoPilot.
Click to expand...
1. If you want to get attention, just mention Tesla.
2. NHTSA is going to find out if others have the same issue, since they have asked for that data.
3. Every Tesla comes with autopilot. If you want a similar feature in another manufacture's vehicle, you often pay extra for it if it's available. So perhaps just numbers.
4. I read comments before that stated autopilot works so well they you are tempted to push it past what it was designed to do. Case in point, woman driving while drunk and passing out. Fortunately, she was using autopilot and believe of not, the car didn't run in to the patrol car when trying to stop it.
 
R P said:
It is this kind of thing that gives Tesla a bad name. Just happened here a couple days ago, and beat to death on the local news shows.... But obviously pretty common everywhere from other news reports. Tesla needs to fix/upgrade their software/hardware to prevent this from happening.
https://globalnews.ca/news/8270749/video-tesla-driver-asleep-at-the-wheel-bc-bridge-rush-hour/
Click to expand...

From the couple of videos I've seen on beta, the car now monitors you if testing beta. Maybe Bob can address where autopilot is today.

Note, these are folks using autopilot in a manor it's currently not designed to do, often by overriding the safety feature.

Driving under the influence, distracted driving and driving while fatigued cause accidents and death. I see Tesla's autopilot as more of a help as opposed to a hindrance in addressing these issues.
 
marshall said:
From the couple of videos I've seen on beta, the car now monitors you if testing beta. Maybe Bob can address where autopilot is today.

Note, these are folks using autopilot in a manor it's currently not designed to do, often by overriding the safety feature.

Driving under the influence, distracted driving and driving while fatigued cause accidents and death. I see Tesla's autopilot as more of a help as opposed to a hindrance in addressing these issues.
Click to expand...
It would be a help, if Tesla prevented it from being used like this.
 
AutoPilot (driver assist) features are very good, IF they work well and don't do phantom braking or run into stationary objects. But FSD is something else, and in its current state (Tesla is still just level 2 FSD), no use to me. I am not into beta testing for a manufacturer with a product that could kill me, if I wasn't careful.

Maybe the Summons or Self Park. But geez, if you can't do that yourself, you shouldn't be driving anyway.

My son tried a trial FSD beta test (no charge) in his M3 a year ago, and did not like it. Thought it was scary, and didn't trust it all.
https://www.tesla.com/support/autopilot
https://www.synopsys.com/automotive/autonomous-driving-levels.html
I think we are a very long ways off, before full FSD becomes mainstream.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top