Next generation (J01) MINI Cooper revealed
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MichaelC
Well-Known Member
Gabe at Motoring File has said that the Aceman uses the very same drivetrain as the 3 door. Likewise, MINI has made official declarations that the JCW brand was definitely going electric. A "real" 3 door JCW seems like a certainty to me, and likely what I will trade my current SE in for once it comes to our shores.
I didn't realize you could buy M trim on a non-M BMW. So you expect the JCW J01 to look exactly the same as the JCW trim on the J01 SE (and J01 E)?
teslarati97
Well-Known Member
Yes a J01 E JCW trim will look identical to a J01 SE JCW trim. That goes the same for Classic and Favoured trims.
BMW has the diluted M Sport trim but the ///M series gets even more serious with the track-ready Competition models and lightweight CSL editions. Generally M Sport will have more ///M badges than the real ///M vehicles so we can also anticipate more JCW badges. So far I count one on the grille, two on the spoilers, and 4 for the center caps for the J01.
I'll be very surprised if there's no way to differentiate a true JCW J01 from an E with "JCW trim" other than by counting the number of badges.
Note: the weight I used is assuming EU weights, eg: 1450 (1365 + 85 driver) for the current SE, 1615 (including driver) for the E and 1680 (including driver) for the SE
Quick back of the napkin analysis of acceleration - ignoring pesky things like rolling resistance or air friction (they actually make little impact at 0-100kph or 0-60mph) - I get:
Basic assumption - max power is at about 60kph (close for the current SE). 0.3s 1ft rollout (delay when first planting the accelerator). Times are inclusive of 1ft rollout, or what you would notice in the real world from slamming the accelerator.
t = speed / (power / (weight * speed)) + 0.3 (speed = 60kph = 16.66666m/s, or the speed of maximum power)
time to 100kph = t * e^(100/speed - 1)
Our (current) SE: 6.1s 0-100kph. Now real world is around 6.6, so not to far off - claimed is 7.3 which is woefully slow.
J01 MINI E: 6.7s - claimed 7.3 is probably a little optimistic, however much closer than the original figure for the current car.
J01 MINI SE: 6.0 - claimed 6.7 is probably quite close. It is there or there abouts with our cars. In a race, the person with the best reaction would win rather than the car.
For reference, the power to weight - a good guage of performance is:
Current SE: 93W/kg
J01 E: 84W/kg
J01 SE: 95kW/kg
So the new SE is only marginally better power to weight. If the gearing is the same - and I don't think it is (J01 has a higher top speed, ie longer geared) - then the J01 SE is marginally faster. This assumes the same traction is available. The J01 would need wider tyres to get the same power transfer. All in all, not really a step up. The new J01 is "more fun" - thanks to being able to step the back out. This is actually slower, but we will forgive that because it is "fun". I will be hanging on to my first gen SE.....
PS. These calculations are just rough, and don't take into account many things like different gearing, wheel sizes, efficiency of the drive train or torque curves. I assume the perfect constant torque till max power, then constant power. Not exactly true, but close.
Quick back of the napkin analysis of acceleration - ignoring pesky things like rolling resistance or air friction (they actually make little impact at 0-100kph or 0-60mph) - I get:
Basic assumption - max power is at about 60kph (close for the current SE). 0.3s 1ft rollout (delay when first planting the accelerator). Times are inclusive of 1ft rollout, or what you would notice in the real world from slamming the accelerator.
t = speed / (power / (weight * speed)) + 0.3 (speed = 60kph = 16.66666m/s, or the speed of maximum power)
time to 100kph = t * e^(100/speed - 1)
Our (current) SE: 6.1s 0-100kph. Now real world is around 6.6, so not to far off - claimed is 7.3 which is woefully slow.
J01 MINI E: 6.7s - claimed 7.3 is probably a little optimistic, however much closer than the original figure for the current car.
J01 MINI SE: 6.0 - claimed 6.7 is probably quite close. It is there or there abouts with our cars. In a race, the person with the best reaction would win rather than the car.
For reference, the power to weight - a good guage of performance is:
Current SE: 93W/kg
J01 E: 84W/kg
J01 SE: 95kW/kg
So the new SE is only marginally better power to weight. If the gearing is the same - and I don't think it is (J01 has a higher top speed, ie longer geared) - then the J01 SE is marginally faster. This assumes the same traction is available. The J01 would need wider tyres to get the same power transfer. All in all, not really a step up. The new J01 is "more fun" - thanks to being able to step the back out. This is actually slower, but we will forgive that because it is "fun". I will be hanging on to my first gen SE.....
PS. These calculations are just rough, and don't take into account many things like different gearing, wheel sizes, efficiency of the drive train or torque curves. I assume the perfect constant torque till max power, then constant power. Not exactly true, but close.
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Was there a Zoom meeting at MINI headquarters in Munich when Great Wall Motor reported the long-awaited, new-from-the-ground-up J01 MINI Electric wasn't much, if any, quicker than the F56 retro-fit MINI Electric cobbled up for 2020? Did the MINI execs look at each other briefly and agree, "No problem," before moving on to discuss the surprise problem of making a profit selling a Chinese car in the US?
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teslarati97
Well-Known Member
The Spotlight Automotive factory also assembles the ORA Lightning Cat and ORA Ballet Cat. Both use LFP and there's at least 5 different electric motors between those two models.
Perhaps it was more like: "No problem, just make it look faster."
Puppethead
Well-Known Member
Abarth 500e review
Looks like it's similar to the J01 JCW, mostly styling. And added fake car sounds. Not much in the way of performance improvement, 0-100 kph in 7 seconds is mediocre at best. A range of 150-164 miles (42 kWh battery) is far short of the J01.
teslarati97
Well-Known Member
Yes but the 500e may have battery swapping technology from Ample in the future. That could be be a complete game changer for Domino's Pizza with their Bolt fleet by adding a little Italian pizzazz.
In a rather lame article, Autoweek reports, "With 215 hp and 243 lb-ft of torque, Mini has only confirmed the Cooper SE JCW for the European market." Does that mean Chinese customers cannot order a JCW-trimmed SE? The article doesn't discuss the possibility of a lighter Cooper E JCW.
Also from that article: "And its new JCW Go-Kart mode will be the final piece of the driving experience puzzle." I'm glad the final piece of the puzzle has been found, but sad the JCW MINI Electric is nothing more than a trim package and an additional experience mode.
Also from that article: "And its new JCW Go-Kart mode will be the final piece of the driving experience puzzle." I'm glad the final piece of the puzzle has been found, but sad the JCW MINI Electric is nothing more than a trim package and an additional experience mode.
teslarati97
Well-Known Member
Go Kart mode will reduce the ABS traction nanny so you can let the rear slide out a bit. In addition there are the active throttle sounds similar to the BMW IconicSounds Electric. You can see the Go Kart mode in action for the prototype J01 at 3:18 & 6:00.
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Puppethead
Well-Known Member
The single dumbest trend in EVs. It's the equivalent of putting straight pipes on motorcycles to make them obnoxiously loud.
fizzit
Active Member
It sounds like the 500e Abarth should have about the same speed and range as the J01 E model, while being ~300lb lighter. The J01 SE is a bit faster and has a bit more range, but then you’re paying a 450lb penalty. The 500e improves on the weight, range, and charging speed of the current SE, which feels like the step forward that Mini should have been able to make with a clean sheet design. The J01 feels like a lateral move. Mini could have made a heavier car with more range when they put together the current SE 5 years ago.
Rexsio
Well-Known Member
I agree with @fizzit as we were ordering SE to specifications I gladly be ordering without rear sits for extra 20 kWh HV battery for total 52,6 kWh battery and range easily over 200 miles without sacrificing GVWR when i will by avoiding putting 200 lbs 2 chicks in a rear sits bc will be any sits there .
CuriousGeorge
Well-Known Member
Based on the stated efficiencies, I suspect that the 500e might have hard time regularly achieving that range. At least, they seem low (by 1+ mi/kWh) compared to what I get from my SE under seemingly comparable conditions.
What that review actually did was make me curious about the MG4 Power... until I followed the link to the review of it and read this:
"Massive straight line pace, but no interest in going round corners? This sounds familiar…
Yep, this is the Tesla of hot hatches"
(I think automotive writers live for the day they can drop in some phrase they have thought of, just waiting for the opportunity to use it.)