New Video - Tesla's Competitors Can't Do This Until 2020!?
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Here is a more detailed, Consumer Reports YouTube:
WARNING: Tesla skeptics should not view this video.
Bob Wilson
WARNING: Tesla skeptics should not view this video.
Bob Wilson
David Green
Well-Known Member
Umm, I-Pace does it today...
10:15 in the video
Chevrolet Bolt also recently updated the BMS settings using on-star...
Nice try buddy, but try to use up to date information, and its not 2020 yet...
How many have been sold in the USA?
Curious, the news articles: https://www.greencarreports.com/new...ttery-pack-for-sudden-loss-of-power-heres-why
For some 2017 Chevrolet Bolt EV drivers, that scenario has happened in real life. The problem has resulted in a program under which Chevy will replace the entire battery pack in a small number of Bolt EVs.
According to a recall notice issued by Chevrolet on April 3, certain early-production cars "may have a condition where the calibration will not detect the difference in the state of charge between the cell groups of the battery."
. . .
Because GM's Onstar service monitors the power produced by each cell group in real time via the car's cellular link, the company can tell which Bolt EVs suffer from reduced cell-group voltage well before the driver notices anything at all.
The company knows the Vehicle Identification numbers of those cars, and it will notify those owners that they are eligible for a replacement battery pack.
Curious battery replacement via OnStar. All Chevy did was run remote diagnostics which a quite different from "BMS" changes. Perhaps in the future you'll cite a source?According to a recall notice issued by Chevrolet on April 3, certain early-production cars "may have a condition where the calibration will not detect the difference in the state of charge between the cell groups of the battery."
. . .
Because GM's Onstar service monitors the power produced by each cell group in real time via the car's cellular link, the company can tell which Bolt EVs suffer from reduced cell-group voltage well before the driver notices anything at all.
The company knows the Vehicle Identification numbers of those cars, and it will notify those owners that they are eligible for a replacement battery pack.
In a real life example, the article goes on:
He didn't receive a notice from GM. Instead, he saw the notice of the possible recall—which GM is calling a "customer satisfaction program" rather than a formal recall of the kind required by the NHTSA—in an owner's forum.
He made an appointment with the service department at Rydell Chevrolet in Northridge, California, to have his car checked out.
Once he arrived, a technician told him his car qualified for a complete replacement battery pack, at no cost to Jablansky, based on its VIN.
The dealer provided a rental car for the duration of the swap, which the technician said would likely require three or four days—including the two days it takes to ship a new battery pack from Detroit.
Just a day later, the dealer texted him that the swap was complete. Jablansky drove away with an electric car powered by a new battery, which he hasn't bothered to inspect.
He made an appointment with the service department at Rydell Chevrolet in Northridge, California, to have his car checked out.
Once he arrived, a technician told him his car qualified for a complete replacement battery pack, at no cost to Jablansky, based on its VIN.
The dealer provided a rental car for the duration of the swap, which the technician said would likely require three or four days—including the two days it takes to ship a new battery pack from Detroit.
Just a day later, the dealer texted him that the swap was complete. Jablansky drove away with an electric car powered by a new battery, which he hasn't bothered to inspect.
Facts and data go a long way in my book, "buddy."
Bob Wilson
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David Green
Well-Known Member
I-Pace is in Production, but not released until the end of June 22nd , thats still in 2018 if you were curious... Mine is coming October 24, also still in 2018
For the Bolt
https://insideevs.com/chevy-bolt-finally-gets-its-over-the-air-ota-updates/
there are numerous people that posted videos online downloading, and installing the update.
So that is ~30,000 Tesla Model 3s in May of 2018?
Thanks! A citing a source is always better practice than acting like a hydrogen fool cell advocate. Running diagnostics is well known but updating the firmware? Still the source claims:
We are rolling out the software updates to vehicle owners in phases beginning April 2018 through August 2018. Updates will be performed remotely, through in-vehicle prompts from the radio display.
Bob Wilson
David Green
Well-Known Member
I am not sure what your point is on the 30K Tesla Model 3 in May, and how it is pertinent to the conversation. The headline says nobody can do OTA until 2020, and I just stated 2 examples... Audi will be next, also in 2018 on the E-tron.
Its really not a huge deal, Magna, and numerous other suppliers have built solutions for OTA... I-Pace also comes at a 4G LTE hot spot for up to 8 devices, and has a removable memory card, when is Tesla ever going to catch up? They are so far behind! haha! I-Pace driver aids can also read signs and adjust speed, once again Tesla is so far behind.
I-Pace also has High Speed Emergency braking, we do not have to debate Tesla is behind on that too, as we have seen visual proof.
See Transport Evolved on you tube, Nikki updated her Bolt OTA , no need for a dealer visit.
Well it is a Tesla thread and about 30k Model 3s are being updated over the weekend. My interest was the CR #152 YouTube which augmented Jonathan Duran's video. As for Jonathan Duran's facts and data, I was not so impressed with the '2020' number if it weren't for:
http://www.autoline.tv/daily/?p=55507#more-55507
HERE OFFERS OTA UPDATE SOLUTION
Other than Tesla, no automaker currently has extensive over-the-air (OTA) update capabilities. But that could soon change. Mapping company HERE just introduced a solution, called OTA Connect that any automaker can adopt into a connected vehicle. Any automaker can get their hands on it because the system was designed to integrate into the automaker’s backend and uses open-source technology. And it doesn’t matter how the automaker plans to connect to its vehicles (5G, DSRC, satellite) OTA Connect is compatible with them all. It’s also backed by Uptane, a security framework approved by the U.S. Department of Homeland Security. No word what automaker will be first to use OTA Connect, but remember HERE is majority-owned by Audi, BMW and Daimler.
Other than Tesla, no automaker currently has extensive over-the-air (OTA) update capabilities. But that could soon change. Mapping company HERE just introduced a solution, called OTA Connect that any automaker can adopt into a connected vehicle. Any automaker can get their hands on it because the system was designed to integrate into the automaker’s backend and uses open-source technology. And it doesn’t matter how the automaker plans to connect to its vehicles (5G, DSRC, satellite) OTA Connect is compatible with them all. It’s also backed by Uptane, a security framework approved by the U.S. Department of Homeland Security. No word what automaker will be first to use OTA Connect, but remember HERE is majority-owned by Audi, BMW and Daimler.
Source: https://www.here.com/en/company/newsroom/press-releases/2018-23-05
May 23, 2018, 2:00 pm CEST
HERE Technologies today announced the launch of a new over-the-air (OTA) solution for automakers to use in connected vehicles. HERE OTA Connect resolves a critical problem: ensuring that data, software and firmware can be transferred between the cloud and a vehicle securely to update and enhance vehicle functions.
“OTA technology is the next big advancement in keeping vehicles safe and up-to-date with less cost to both automakers and car owners,” said Ralf Herrtwich, SVP Automotive at HERE Technologies. “HERE OTA Connect provides cost- and time-saving benefits by enabling automakers to update vehicles remotely, such as in large recall campaigns. It also opens up revenue streams for automakers by giving their customers the ability to purchase new vehicle upgrades and features at the touch of a button.”
Because it’s designed to integrate into the automaker’s backend and uses open-source technology, OTA Connect can be offered to automotive customers globally and avoids lock-in to specific vendors. Currently available as a standalone product, HERE plans to combine OTA Connect with its suite of automotive software and services in the coming months, and make the technology available for non-automotive applications, which could include robotics and drones.
. . .
HERE Technologies today announced the launch of a new over-the-air (OTA) solution for automakers to use in connected vehicles. HERE OTA Connect resolves a critical problem: ensuring that data, software and firmware can be transferred between the cloud and a vehicle securely to update and enhance vehicle functions.
“OTA technology is the next big advancement in keeping vehicles safe and up-to-date with less cost to both automakers and car owners,” said Ralf Herrtwich, SVP Automotive at HERE Technologies. “HERE OTA Connect provides cost- and time-saving benefits by enabling automakers to update vehicles remotely, such as in large recall campaigns. It also opens up revenue streams for automakers by giving their customers the ability to purchase new vehicle upgrades and features at the touch of a button.”
Because it’s designed to integrate into the automaker’s backend and uses open-source technology, OTA Connect can be offered to automotive customers globally and avoids lock-in to specific vendors. Currently available as a standalone product, HERE plans to combine OTA Connect with its suite of automotive software and services in the coming months, and make the technology available for non-automotive applications, which could include robotics and drones.
. . .
Well it seems other industry reports seem to think OTA is a new and coming technology. Not something old hat for a Bolt or I-Pace (no USA sales, yet.)
I have a 2014 BMW i3-REx and the connected software can peer into the car. I've used it before when a motor mount bolt broke. So whether it is remote diagnostics or firmware update, my Macintosh and iPhone have been doing it for years. Sorry if I'm not running around with my 'hair on fire.'
As for the Tesla Model 3, add a 35-40 hp range extender and I'll be a lot more interested. Of course we may someday see an ultra-cap, spare electricity, carrier about the size and weight of today's spare gas cans:
Bob Wilson
David Green
Well-Known Member
Well it is a Tesla thread and about 30k Model 3s are being updated over the weekend. My interest was the CR #152 YouTube which augmented Jonathan Duran's video. As for Jonathan Duran's facts and data, I was not so impressed with the '2020' number if it weren't for:
http://www.autoline.tv/daily/?p=55507#more-55507
HERE OFFERS OTA UPDATE SOLUTION
Other than Tesla, no automaker currently has extensive over-the-air (OTA) update capabilities. But that could soon change. Mapping company HERE just introduced a solution, called OTA Connect that any automaker can adopt into a connected vehicle. Any automaker can get their hands on it because the system was designed to integrate into the automaker’s backend and uses open-source technology. And it doesn’t matter how the automaker plans to connect to its vehicles (5G, DSRC, satellite) OTA Connect is compatible with them all. It’s also backed by Uptane, a security framework approved by the U.S. Department of Homeland Security. No word what automaker will be first to use OTA Connect, but remember HERE is majority-owned by Audi, BMW and Daimler.
Source: https://www.here.com/en/company/newsroom/press-releases/2018-23-05
May 23, 2018, 2:00 pm CEST
HERE Technologies today announced the launch of a new over-the-air (OTA) solution for automakers to use in connected vehicles. HERE OTA Connect resolves a critical problem: ensuring that data, software and firmware can be transferred between the cloud and a vehicle securely to update and enhance vehicle functions.
“OTA technology is the next big advancement in keeping vehicles safe and up-to-date with less cost to both automakers and car owners,” said Ralf Herrtwich, SVP Automotive at HERE Technologies. “HERE OTA Connect provides cost- and time-saving benefits by enabling automakers to update vehicles remotely, such as in large recall campaigns. It also opens up revenue streams for automakers by giving their customers the ability to purchase new vehicle upgrades and features at the touch of a button.”
Because it’s designed to integrate into the automaker’s backend and uses open-source technology, OTA Connect can be offered to automotive customers globally and avoids lock-in to specific vendors. Currently available as a standalone product, HERE plans to combine OTA Connect with its suite of automotive software and services in the coming months, and make the technology available for non-automotive applications, which could include robotics and drones.
. . .
Well it seems other industry reports seem to think OTA is a new and coming technology. Not something old hat for a Bolt or I-Pace (no USA sales, yet.)
I have a 2014 BMW i3-REx and the connected software can peer into the car. I've used it before when a motor mount bolt broke. So whether it is remote diagnostics or firmware update, my Macintosh and iPhone have been doing it for years. Sorry if I'm not running around with my 'hair on fire.'
As for the Tesla Model 3, add a 35-40 hp range extender and I'll be a lot more interested. Of course we may someday see an ultra-cap, spare electricity, carrier about the size and weight of today's spare gas cans:
Bob Wilson
Man, you have way more time to think about, and dig through data for things that do not matter then do I... I-Pace will be here in a coupe months and then the whole concept of your research is obsolete... Tesla had to do OTA, because they do not finish their software before they ship the cars, I hope all OEM's do not follow this, as I want a car that completely works with full functionality on day 1. OTA should be to fix bugs, and glitches, not to ship the cars before development is finished. On Model 3, some people had the car for 6 months before the heated rear seats worked. Likewise the windshield wipers delay, no FM radio, and they still do not have AM radio, and many other functions. I would take the car back to the dealer and tell them to call me when it all works. I am not a Beta tester...
I went to Jonathan Duran's source:
https://www.consumerreports.org/aut...-air-updates-can-we-trust-digital-car-repair/
In just a few years, major automakers will be rolling out cars that can be repaired remotely while parked in your garage or while you’re asleep in bed.
Ford and GM, among others, recently announced that some of their 2020 models will allow over-the-air (OTA) updates that can upgrade a vehicle with new features, or even remotely fix faulty vehicle software.
It’s similar to how Apple or Samsung, for example, can update or repair the software on a smartphone. Tesla, the electric car company, upgrades its vehicles remotely.
. . .
Ford and GM, among others, recently announced that some of their 2020 models will allow over-the-air (OTA) updates that can upgrade a vehicle with new features, or even remotely fix faulty vehicle software.
It’s similar to how Apple or Samsung, for example, can update or repair the software on a smartphone. Tesla, the electric car company, upgrades its vehicles remotely.
. . .
Perhaps the I-Pace was left out of the Consumer Reports article because they don't have one to test?
I spent my professional life as an operating system programmer which meant I diagnosed everything not handled by others. When the OS moved to networks, I became a network engineer, again diagnosing what others did not. I subscribe to 'the world is broke and I am here to fix it.'
I understand some believe in perfection ... 'here hold my beer and watch this.' We just have different approaches to dealing with reality and I'm not in the business (actually retired) of trying to change someone else's attitude. Happily, I'm immune from attempts to change mine.
Bob Wilson
Recently I've been digging into the eMotorwerks, JuiceBox 40 Pro, only to discover their software comes from:
https://www.zentri.com/
The reason I bring it up is they address the necessary architecture for a secure OTA service.
Bob Wilson
https://www.zentri.com/
The reason I bring it up is they address the necessary architecture for a secure OTA service.
Bob Wilson
Martin Williams
Active Member
Are you not a little worried that this is simply providing malicious hackers with further targets? Just because something CAN be done is not a good reason to do it.
Martin Williams
Active Member
Do Tesla pay you to produce this unconvincing and factually dubious stuff?
David Green
Well-Known Member
My wife is a programmer too, actually she is more of a manager now, but leads a team of programmers. I totally get what you are saying, and agree. Tesla absolutely had to do OTA, because their software was not mature at vehicle release, GM on the other hand will try very hard to refine the software before release, they still have some bugs slip through of course, but it is not a practice to release 1/2 baked software and let consumers do the beta testing. I have an I-Pace ordered, and I am guessing it will have some software bugs just because it contains a lot of new functions, that have not been released to the public before, and in that case I am ok... There is nothing perfect. At the same time, I expect all the hardware on the I-Pace will function as intended from day 1. Delay wipers will work, 4 zone climate control will work, heated seats will work, so any update that I receive will be for refinement of the systems, not for basic operations like many of the Tesla 3 updates.
David Green
Well-Known Member
Honestly, I wondered the same thing. With Pu-Pu I am almost certain. This "Talk Tesla" guy may be Elon's new media outlet, his videos are very well produced, but a bit on the pro Tesla front for my taste.
How I read this:
I'm reminded of the 1980s "Betaware" that would be released early to gut the sales of a competitor. In one respect, the Model 3 release predates the I-Pace like the Betaware.
Bob Wilson
I'm reminded of the 1980s "Betaware" that would be released early to gut the sales of a competitor. In one respect, the Model 3 release predates the I-Pace like the Betaware.
Bob Wilson
Martin Williams
Active Member
The last thing I want is some company hacker updating the software that controls my brakes. I don't want him doing it whilst I sleep, whilst I drive, or whilst I'm doing anything else. I don't want him doing it at all.
Curiously, I am also averse to malicious hackers doing it and possibly involving me in a serious accident. And if Tesla can do it, so can a persistent deranged teenager from his bedroom! Possibly I lack a sense of humour. Perhaps I should be able to laugh these things off. However, I will continue to avoid Teslas for the foreseeable future.
I find these videos about as convincing as the tooth fairy. If they continue to damage faith in the overpriced cars as the two I've seen, perhaps Musk will pay him NOT to produce them.
Curiously, I am also averse to malicious hackers doing it and possibly involving me in a serious accident. And if Tesla can do it, so can a persistent deranged teenager from his bedroom! Possibly I lack a sense of humour. Perhaps I should be able to laugh these things off. However, I will continue to avoid Teslas for the foreseeable future.
I find these videos about as convincing as the tooth fairy. If they continue to damage faith in the overpriced cars as the two I've seen, perhaps Musk will pay him NOT to produce them.
David Green
Well-Known Member
Yup... Thats the perfect response... Apple always tried a little harder to get things right before release then the evil empire (MSFT). One of the many reasons Apple has such a loyal following today.
I have to be nice though, many of my clients work at MSFT, and bought houses due to the wealth they made with MSFT stock. Living near Redmond WA, I have to be careful what I say, and especially with my business partner that started at MSFT in 1980, well before they went public.
Martin Williams
Active Member
As to OTA updating of software, it has been done for some years now with my gas and electricity meters! Every time I change supplier, they get updated. They regularly communicate both ways with the supplier of my energy, and with the millions of other meters across the country. I've received phone updates, updates for my kindle, and my tablet. Even our central heating boiler links to the wi-fi and sends performance data to the people who maintain it, as well as receiving updates periodically. It is a very well-trodden path and quite unremarkable.
Mr Duran must have led a very sheltered existence indeed to find this 'incredible', or to imagine nobody else is able to do it!
Mr Duran must have led a very sheltered existence indeed to find this 'incredible', or to imagine nobody else is able to do it!
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Christmas 2009 we had the first report of a Gen-3 Prius brake problem. It was intermittent so we started gathering facts and data in January 1, 2010:
Poll: Are Prius brakes a problem? | PriusChat
Within 2-3 months, the Gen-3 Prius community had figured out how to quantify and replicate the problem. At that point, Toyota had announced a fix that required spending time at the local Toyota Service center. Knowing how to replicate the problem, we quickly verified this obscure problem was fixed:
This problem took ~12 weeks of user initiated problem analysis until Toyota came up with a brake controller, software patch. In contrast, the Tesla problem was well documented by Consumer Reports and fixed in 1-2 weeks.
If others unfamiliar with problem diagnosis and fixes thinks this is outrageous, don't buy a Model 3. But to me, a life-long operating system and network engineer, this is like breaking the sound barrier.
Well done Tesla and Elon's team!
Bob Wilson
Poll: Are Prius brakes a problem? | PriusChat
The question about Prius braking has occupied 2-3 threads with variable degrees of opinions and little or no metrics. This poll is to count, to get a metric, of who and how many have any experience with it. This is not to change impressions but just to measure how the community sees the problem.
Please, only those who have or have owned a Prius should vote. It is an open poll. Pick either "no experience" or two answers for either the 2010 or 2004-09 Prius.
I picked "no experience" for our 2010 Prius because I've only seen something like it once and I had to steer for a pot hole. This is less than once per month, in fact, only once since May 27, 2009. I can't complain about something that isn't happening in my observation.
. . .
Please, only those who have or have owned a Prius should vote. It is an open poll. Pick either "no experience" or two answers for either the 2010 or 2004-09 Prius.
I picked "no experience" for our 2010 Prius because I've only seen something like it once and I had to steer for a pot hole. This is less than once per month, in fact, only once since May 27, 2009. I can't complain about something that isn't happening in my observation.
. . .
Within 2-3 months, the Gen-3 Prius community had figured out how to quantify and replicate the problem. At that point, Toyota had announced a fix that required spending time at the local Toyota Service center. Knowing how to replicate the problem, we quickly verified this obscure problem was fixed:
This problem took ~12 weeks of user initiated problem analysis until Toyota came up with a brake controller, software patch. In contrast, the Tesla problem was well documented by Consumer Reports and fixed in 1-2 weeks.
If others unfamiliar with problem diagnosis and fixes thinks this is outrageous, don't buy a Model 3. But to me, a life-long operating system and network engineer, this is like breaking the sound barrier.
Well done Tesla and Elon's team!
Bob Wilson