New owner with EV range concern

18ClarityPLUG

18ClarityPLUG

New Member
I bought a 2018 Plug in one week ago tomorrow and love the car so far. I only have one concern and I assume it would be covered under the drivetrain warranty still. (The car has about 39k miles on it)

My concern is EV range. It doesn't get any hotter than it is now in Missouri, and my full charge last night gave me 40.8 miles. I was under the impression that 47 is normal, and in warm weather I could expect more. What would I have when it gets cold? Not an acceptable situation. Anything to be concerned about? I've seen these EV range numbers all over the place, so perhaps it doesn't mean there's a problem with the battery.

Thanks
Alan
 
18ClarityPLUG said:
I bought a 2018 Plug in one week ago tomorrow and love the car so far. I only have one concern and I assume it would be covered under the drivetrain warranty still. (The car has about 39k miles on it)

My concern is EV range. It doesn't get any hotter than it is now in Missouri, and my full charge last night gave me 40.8 miles. I was under the impression that 47 is normal, and in warm weather I could expect more. What would I have when it gets cold? Not an acceptable situation. Anything to be concerned about? I've seen these EV range numbers all over the place, so perhaps it doesn't mean there's a problem with the battery.

Thanks
Alan
Click to expand...

Hi Alan
Those numbers are 'my' low end for winter (Ontario) .. summer is about 85 km (about 50 mi) to a high of 100 km (60 miles). My drive in and out of town is reasonably slow 50-90 kph (35-54 mph).. I notice if I go over 55/60 mph then there is a quite substantial drop in range. I am careful and use the eco mode, AC in summer is fine, heat in the winter is a real killer - so I preheat and do a little suffering :-).
67,000 km now; and one tank of gas for 9700 km. range has not dropped much from new (5%? ) original tires with snow tires. Unless you run out of electricity you really won't know your real range as the guessometer is not very precise.
 
Keep in mind that speed kills when driving on EV. Even in summer, you can get 38 miles EV range at nearly 80 mph on the interstate, and above 50 miles EV range (maybe even above 60 miles) if driving 45-55 mph on 2 lane roads. Also if you have extended periods "idling" with A/C running, it will drag down the EV range some.
 
Thanks guys. Yes I'm aware of the higher speeds and other things that can effect the actual range. I normally do use HV on the freeway. I was more concerned with what I'm charging to, not what I'm actually getting. It sounds like this is pretty normal though and that the 47 advertised EV range is just that, advertised and not a areal world number.
 
Yes, if you are mostly driving on freeway, I think you are good. The guess-o-meter / range estimate after charging is "intelligent" and changes based on your historical speed, driving habits, etc.
 
18ClarityPLUG said:
I was more concerned with what I'm charging to, not what I'm actually getting
Click to expand...

If you, or a previous owner, haven’t fussed with any charger settings, the charger will “charge to” fully charged if given sufficient time. Your “charge to” number is just an estimate. The estimate is one of the less advanced features of the car. It estimates that you’re going to drive the car today, exactly how you drove it yesterday. I believe it’s more important to know what you’re actually getting, than what the estimate says. The trick is, you need to have a baseline that is repeatable. I’d recommend establishing a baseline by driving exclusively in EV. Go for a 40-odd mile drive at 55-60mph, or some other drive that would be easy to repeat at a later date. I have a hair brained theory that mixing HV and EV confuses the EV estimate wizard and yields a result that is less useful than the usual estimate.

Now, to your car. It is 3 years old. There likely has been some battery degradation. Perhaps 10-20%. Find your battery capacity. Either pay a dealer the $140 diagnostic fee, gather all the widgets to read the number yourself, or find someone near you who has all the widgets. The battery capacity is what will determine a warranty claim.
 
Do this:
https://www.insideevsforum.com/community/index.php?threads/budget-battery-capacity-readout.10531/

Forum members have developed a shared spreadsheet of battery capacity measurements to compare against what is "normal".

I am firmly convinced that there are just too many variables associated with EV range, while battery capacity is much less ambiguous. It is also the primary measure used by Honda for warranty evaluation of the HV battery.

P.S. - The title of your post states HV range, but it seems clear that you really meant EV range !

Also, realize if you live in one of these states, your HV battery warranty is increased from 8Y/100K to 10Y/150K miles:
  • California, Connecticut, Delaware, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New York, Oregon Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Vermont, and Washington
 
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MrFixit said:
Also, realize if you live in one of these states, your HV battery warranty is increased from 8Y/100K to 10Y/150K miles:
  • California, Connecticut, Delaware, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New York, Oregon Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Vermont, and Washington
Click to expand...
Is the warranty tied to where the car was originally sold?
 
Robert_Alabama said:
Is the warranty tied to where the car was originally sold?
Click to expand...
It seems to NOT have any relationship to where the car was originally sold...

Here is the wording in the warranty document:
"Vehicles that are registered and normally operated in" the identified states are covered by the extended warranty.
 
Landshark said:
If you, or a previous owner, haven’t fussed with any charger settings, the charger will “charge to” fully charged if given sufficient time. Your “charge to” number is just an estimate. The estimate is one of the less advanced features of the car. It estimates that you’re going to drive the car today, exactly how you drove it yesterday. I believe it’s more important to know what you’re actually getting, than what the estimate says. The trick is, you need to have a baseline that is repeatable. I’d recommend establishing a baseline by driving exclusively in EV. Go for a 40-odd mile drive at 55-60mph, or some other drive that would be easy to repeat at a later date. I have a hair brained theory that mixing HV and EV confuses the EV estimate wizard and yields a result that is less useful than the usual estimate.

Now, to your car. It is 3 years old. There likely has been some battery degradation. Perhaps 10-20%. Find your battery capacity. Either pay a dealer the $140 diagnostic fee, gather all the widgets to read the number yourself, or find someone near you who has all the widgets. The battery capacity is what will determine a warranty claim.
Click to expand...

I have downloaded the app and ordered the vgate from Amazon. I would like to know the capacity, especially as I get closer to the end of the warranty that covers that battery. Thanks!
 
MrFixit said:
Do this:
https://www.insideevsforum.com/community/index.php?threads/budget-battery-capacity-readout.10531/

Forum members have developed a shared spreadsheet of battery capacity measurements to compare against what is "normal".

I am firmly convinced that there are just too many variables associated with EV range, while battery capacity is much less ambiguous. It is also the primary measure used by Honda for warranty evaluation of the HV battery.

P.S. - The title of your post states HV range, but it seems clear that you really meant EV range !

Also, realize if you live in one of these states, your HV battery warranty is increased from 8Y/100K to 10Y/150K miles:
  • California, Connecticut, Delaware, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New York, Oregon Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Vermont, and Washington
Click to expand...

Yes, meant EV range, and couldn't edit the title of the post. lol.
 
MrFixit said:
It seems to NOT have any relationship to where the car was originally sold...

Here is the wording in the warranty document:
"Vehicles that are registered and normally operated in" the identified states are covered by the extended warranty.
Click to expand...

Interesting. I guess that means a lot of these cars will migrate to the states with the longer warranties when they get to the end of 8 years/100k.
 
40.8 is not bad at all if it is all highway. I get 43-44 miles EV on the highway going 65-70mph (no hypermiling tricks) with 5k on the odometer. GOM ranges from 52-55 miles EV range, but that is since I normally have a mixed commute.
 
Robert_Alabama said:
Interesting. I guess that means a lot of these cars will migrate to the states with the longer warranties when they get to the end of 8 years/100k.
Click to expand...

Well, if someone wants to move just because their car is getting old, then I guess that could be a consideration !

The vehicle doesn't know which state it is in, so I am thinking that it is likely that nearly all of the Clarity batteries will last 10Y/150K. Otherwise Honda will lose a lot of money, and they would probably be forced to issue an extension covering batteries in all states due to customer dissatisfaction.
 
Everyone else sort of covered it, but I have a 18-20mile commute each day, involving 10-12 miles of interstate. If I accelerate fairly fast and drive over the speed limit by 5-10mph on country and city roads, and if I drive over 10-15 on the interstate, my range tanks to like 35-38 miles EV. On the other hand, if I faithfully follow the posted speed limits (max is 70 on the interstate) and maximize my regen braking paddles, I tend to get 45-46 miles EV range. If I avoid the interstate entirely, and only drive a max of 60mph on a state road - my range goes up to 50-52 miles. I have a feeling I could get it to mid 50's if I kept a closer watch and limited top speed to 55 on that particular route. I was initially wondering if there was an issue with my car too - my used car is also a 2018, but I checked the battery capacity in mine and it is like .1 under the rated capacity - there is no battery issue with my car - it quickly became apparent to me after watching closely and experimenting that the range estimate was just reacting to the energy the car was using to travel - as varied by speed, regenerative braking returns, and other electrical usage (mostly AC in this case).

There are people in the facebook owners group who have gotten 70-72miles range. As you might now imagine, they really only drive city streets at moderate top speeds. The range is just an estimate, and it really just depends on how much juice you are using. It is as good of a lesson as any in just how much air you start moving as you start increasing speed and what sort of energy it takes to overcome that resistance, even in a fairly slippery car.
 
Robert_Alabama said:
Interesting. I guess that means a lot of these cars will migrate to the states with the longer warranties when they get to the end of 8 years/100k.
Click to expand...

Well that is an interesting comment. Closest to me is Pennsylvania. Guess some people could be doing some math at some point on how to game that out potentially. That said, based on the spreadsheet that has been kept and how well Honda engineering usually is, I'd say they probably have a good handle on the battery's performance and it will be a non-consideration.
 
Annwn said:
Everyone else sort of covered it, but I have a 18-20mile commute each day, involving 10-12 miles of interstate. If I accelerate fairly fast and drive over the speed limit by 5-10mph on country and city roads, and if I drive over 10-15 on the interstate, my range tanks to like 35-38 miles EV. On the other hand, if I faithfully follow the posted speed limits (max is 70 on the interstate) and maximize my regen braking paddles, I tend to get 45-46 miles EV range. If I avoid the interstate entirely, and only drive a max of 60mph on a state road - my range goes up to 50-52 miles. I have a feeling I could get it to mid 50's if I kept a closer watch and limited top speed to 55 on that particular route. I was initially wondering if there was an issue with my car too - my used car is also a 2018, but I checked the battery capacity in mine and it is like .1 under the rated capacity - there is no battery issue with my car - it quickly became apparent to me after watching closely and experimenting that the range estimate was just reacting to the energy the car was using to travel - as varied by speed, regenerative braking returns, and other electrical usage (mostly AC in this case).

There are people in the facebook owners group who have gotten 70-72miles range. As you might now imagine, they really only drive city streets at moderate top speeds. The range is just an estimate, and it really just depends on how much juice you are using. It is as good of a lesson as any in just how much air you start moving as you start increasing speed and what sort of energy it takes to overcome that resistance, even in a fairly slippery car.
Click to expand...

Speed limit? I though that was the speed minimum. lol. I'm in sales, most of my commutes are longer than my range, so some may say it's not the best car for me. On Saturday on a 55 mile one way trip to golf I used about half my EV range up and the rest was in HV on the highway. I purposely ran the EV to zero as I was nearing home. Overall average for the trips was around 75mpg with that mix of EV and HV driving. Not bad. Some people say just get in it and drive, the car will make the necessary adjustments. But I'm a numbers guy. My solar panel spreadsheet lets me calculate my actual Kwh used each day. If it can be tracked I like to track it. I'm one week in on my Clarity so still learning all the ins and outs.
 
Range depends on a number things one being hills. We live 1000 feet higher than everywhere we go. That uphill drive, yikes. We average about 40-42 miles and I don't baby it. Just get in and go. People in the flatlands do much better.

Check the engine and cabin air filters.
 
Tek_Freek said:
Range depends on a number things one being hills. We live 1000 feet higher than everywhere we go. That uphill drive, yikes. We average about 40-42 miles and I don't baby it. Just get in and go. People in the flatlands do much better.

Check the engine and cabin air filters.
Click to expand...

I've already ordered cabin filters. Air filter was supposed to have been checked prepurchase but not a bad idea.
 
The range estimator is primarily based on CONSUMPTION x capacity. The OP wants to know the capacity of the battery. This is best measured by Honda and their amp rating but the consumer can get a good handle on things by measuring the amount it takes to charge from zero-100% and comparing that with others of the same age and (preferably in a perfect world) the same miles and climate.

My 2018 on a level II chargers (home and public) regularly pulls 13.0-13.5 kWh from zero EV miles. Note: these do include inefficiencies in the charger and variables like temperature control (fans) during charging.

FWIW
 
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