New act of dieselgate.

  • Thread starter Thread starter silversod
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silversod said:
More than 300,000 people have joined a collective case against Volkswagen, suing the embattled German auto giant for damages over emissions manipulations. https://www.rt.com/business/447945-...edium=aplication_firefox&utm_campaign=firefox
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I see this is happening in Europe. I think they did not received the generous compensation we received here. I was quite pleased to take VW’s cash and profit from using my Passat TDi for a year!


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Good to see a massive cheater's chickens coming home to roost.

Is it wrong to think VW deserves all the punishment it is getting for its widespread fraud and conspiracy, even if that means it will have less money to pursue its plans for shifting production to EVs?

Some cognitive dissonance for me on this subject; I want to see VW punished strongly, as an object lesson and to discourage similar actions by others. But at the same time, I certainly hope that VW does follow through on its announced plans to change production at multiple assembly plants over to making EVs in, apparently, large numbers. If VW does follow through on its announced plans, then it will be the first legacy auto maker to make a serious commitment to the EV revolution.

I guess if I were to post on FaceBook about VW, I'd say our relationship is "complicated".
;)
 
Pushmi-Pullyu said:
then it [VW rjw] will be the first legacy auto maker to make a serious commitment to the EV revolution.
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Owning a BMW i3-REx and having seen the poor engineering of the iPace, Leaf, and Bolt/Volt, there appears to be a cognitive disconnect in their engineering design rules:
  • weight - a steel body can be made light weight but it is not trivial. Traditional engines let their engineers avoid doing a 'clean sheet' design and there is too much overhead weight.
  • radiators - ICE engineers can't walk away from those high drag appendages.
  • batteries - the core of any car is the engine and for an EV, the battery pack. Yet traditional auto manufactures are outsourcing battery technology. They are treating their traction batteries like they do 12V lead-acid batteries, a COTs product.
Somehow BMW let the i3 team do a clean sheet design: carbon fiber body on aluminum frame; modular battery pack, and; multi-config motor/REx compartment in the rear. Removing the "B" pillar, a brilliant solution for a compact car and easy loading. So the same BMW i3-REx has:
  • 60 Ah: 22 (18.8 usable) kWh
  • 94 Ah: 33 (27.2 usable) kWh
  • 120 Ah: 42.2 kWh (est. 34.6 usable)
Bob Wilson

ps. I have no illusions about the Prius Prime because it is first a Prius. The ~5.6-5.9 kWh battery is the natural growth of the Gen-1, plug-in Prius. This is not an electric car with a hybrid-engine backup. It is a hybrid-engine car with an expanded battery. Unlike traditional car makers, the Prius starts as an optimized design.
 
bwilson4web said:
Somehow BMW let the i3 team do a clean sheet design: carbon fiber body on aluminum frame;
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I thought at the time, and for some time afterward, that the carbon fiber body was a brilliant innovation and a harbinger of the future.

Sadly, not BMW nor any other auto maker has followed by using a carbon fiber body for a fully mass-produced car. So at the moment it looks like a noble but failed experiment. But who knows? Maybe a few years from now, the idea will be re-introduced, and perhaps will grow. If that happens, then we'll look back and see the i3's carbon-fiber body as an idea ahead of its time.

bwilson4web said:
I have no illusions about the Prius Prime because it is first a Prius. The ~5.6-5.9 kWh battery is the natural growth of the Gen-1, plug-in Prius. This is not an electric car with a hybrid-engine backup. It is a hybrid-engine car with an expanded battery. Unlike traditional car makers, the Prius starts as an optimized design.
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Optimized design? I guess you are a lot more impressed with Toyota's engineering than I am. I was astounded when the first-generation Prius Plug-in had no better EV range than some Prii that were already running around with third-party kit modifications to convert them into a PHEV with a tiny all-electric range. The EV range of the Prius Plug-in was just as tiny!

No, I'm not impressed.

* * * * * *

But, Bob, I was talking about a commitment in resources and capital investment in making and selling EVs in large numbers. VW is talking about what are apparently quite serious plans for converting multiple auto assembly plants over to making PEVs. I'm still somewhat skeptical, because VW has lied to us so many times about putting EVs into production... but all the news about that indicates they really are following thru on their announced plans, this time.

I wasn't talking about merely designing a PEV, not even one started as a clean-sheet design to be a PEV, like the BMW i3, the Nissan Leaf, the Bolt EV... and of course, all of Tesla's cars.
​
 
Thomas Mitchell said:
I see this is happening in Europe. I think they did not received the generous compensation we received here. I was quite pleased to take VW’s cash and profit from using my Passat TDi for a year!


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Yes We got diddly squat over here except to get your VW car remapped by them.
The changes included reduction in fuelling.
changes to the injection pattern
changes to the EGR
addition of an air straightener (some models)

which resulted in,
reduced power
increased engine noise
EGR valve failure
injector failure
DPF filter blockages
reduced MPG/fuel efficiency

I read that many owners were not happy with these re-maps with constant DPF failures/poor performance (very expensive to replace them) and paid out of their own pockets to get the ECU re-flashed back to the original factory(cheat) specs because they ran so badly compared to before.
 
Pushmi-Pullyu said:
No, I'm not impressed.
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We'll have to agree to disagree on this because I have:
  • 130,000 mi, 2005-2016 - Gen-1, 2003 Prius
  • 70,000 mi, 2009-2016 - Gen-3, 2010 Prius
  • 15,000 mi, 2016-current - Gen-4(+), 2017 Prius Prime
Certainly there are short comings but every one of these cars consistently delivered 52-56 MPG when operating on gas powered, hybrid mode. My biggest complaint is the slow ramp-up of acceleration power (every Prius has the power but the control laws do not allow its use.)
Pushmi-Pullyu said:
I was talking about a commitment in resources and capital investment in making and selling EVs in large numbers.
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I appreciate the capital investment but have less faith in their ability to use EV engineering design rules. Too many of the money managers are likely to insist on some archaic engine nonsense like a 'radiator' front end. Perhaps a clever design engineer can convince them instead to add 'turbo exhaust pipes' and 'big spoilers.' <grins>

Bob Wilson
 
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bwilson4web said:
Too many of the money managers are likely to insist on some archaic engine nonsense like a 'radiator' front end.
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I have never understood the hate-fest for faux radiator grilles. So what if it's non-functional? So were tail fins on some '50s cars, and I loved them! I love the original design of the Model S, nose-cone and all. The newer design... well, it seems like something is missing there, with all that empty real estate on the front end.

I'm still hoping to see some truly radical new designs for BEVs. Maybe something like the "Spinner" from "Blade Runner". Not that particular design (see below), which probably isn't practical, but something that different from current car designs. I think even Elon Musk mentioned that the Tesla Pickup might look like something out of "Blade Runner"?

181MA01_Blade-Runner-Decals_01.jpg
 
bwilson4web said:
Certainly there are short comings but every one of these cars consistently delivered 52-56 MPG when operating on gas powered, hybrid mode.
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Certainly the Prius is very parsimonious in its use of gas to power the car. No question, and yes Toyota engineers do deserve praise for superior MPG... and that's real MPG, not fake MPG as reported by all too many PHEV owners.

But it's still using gas to power the car! Every mile of range is still gas-powered, other than the relative handful of EV miles with the plug-in versions.
​
 
I’m a minimalist who has no problem with a functioning part. Everything else is vanity.

Nice toy car.

Bob Wilson
 
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