My Solar Experience

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Thanks @jdonalds, for your detailed report. Very disappointing to read that your installer didn't correctly calculate the power-generating capacity of your solar array. How difficult is it to wash smoke from your solar cells on the roof? Can you just spray them off from the ground or do you have to get on a ladder with a tiny solar-cell brush made of super-soft sable? How about a photo (or a link if you've already posted one).
I was up on the roof one day with the solar installers who were just checking something. At the age of 20-30-40-50 that would have been fine. At 72 I was scared and actually asked the solar guy to hold my arm while I got on the ladder to descend. My wife put up the Christmas lights this year. So physically cleaning the solar panels is out of the question.

Our solar array is difficult to see or access from the ground of our single story house. There is a patio cover in the way. There are two places for my 8' ladder to be placed so I can twist my body and use the garden hose to wash the panels. That has actually been quite effective. The ash from the fires came off easily. Now that we're in the rainy season they are getting well washed. I understand the panels have a coating on them which is supposed to help keep them clean. I did research an extendable pole and soft brush but didn't go that route yet. The pole would have to be 20' long. I'm not sure, given the limited access I have, that I could reach all 20 panels that way. I'd also be concerned about scratching the panels. Perhaps I could hire someone to clean them if they really get dirty. For sure cleaning them made a difference. I could see the effect on the SolarEdge graph.

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I'm submitting this in case anyone is contemplating having solar installed on their property. This is my almost one year experience. Everyone's situation would be unique. This is just ours.

Why did I install solar? I've had a couple of people ask me that and I had to think about it. Reasons might include saving money, going green, going off grid to screw the utility companies, prevention against unreasonable rate increases, or reducing foreign oil imports. I finally decided in my case it was 80% just wanting to move a step ahead in technology. It just made sense to me. The other 20% was to cut costs but that takes time.

It isn't easy computing the payback of a solar system. In the long run it may not have been a good thing economically. If I simply take the cost, subtract all the government incentives, and compute the lower power bills it looks like it would pay for itself in about eight years. But it isn't that simple. The money to buy the system has to come from somewhere.

I could lease the system but that does not appeal to me. I could borrow the money but then I'd have a loan to pay with interest; and we don't have any loans in our family. I could use cash but that means that amount isn't sitting in the stock market where it can easily double in less than eight years. In the end it wasn't about money after all. I just wanted it.

We live in Redding CA which NOAA says is the 2nd sunniest city in the U.S. after Yuma AZ. We get intense sun for six months, and lots of sun the other six months. Perfect for solar. Our house was consuming about 880 kWh per month in 2017. Due to city restrictions and practical roof space we ended up with a max 7.3kW system which, in the best conditions, can power the house 100%+ for about three summer months. But the other nine months we have to buy some power from the grid.

Where do we stand after almost a year? In 2017 we consumed 10,573 kW without solar. So far in 2018 we consumed 3,155 kW a saving of 7,418 kW. At our rates that is $1,112.7 annual savings. Apples to apples? Not at all. The solar system produced much more than that 7,148 kW because it also charged the Clarity all year. We've never charged away from home.

In 2017 we were driving a 2015 Toyota Prius so our auto fuel consumption was already low. We have a 4Runner but only drive it when we have to (only 71,128 miles on a 13 year old SUV). The above figures of electricity consumption are not just the house for 2018, but also include 100% of the charging for the Clarity. As for auto fuel savings at the pump we saved $1,017 this year. So the solar is working it's butt off for us. Total electricity and auto fuel savings $2,129.69 for 2018. Things should be slightly better in 2019.

The solar installer underestimated the capacity of the panels we selected and installed an under-powered inverter which was clipping at 5kW. That was corrected but we lost some potential power generation for three months.

We also had heavy smoke from the huge Carr fire for six weeks. Not only did the smoke partially block the sun, it also coated the solar panels. I had to wash them three times.

I was disappointed to notice late afternoon shade on the solar panels this week. We have two 50 foot and growing redwood trees that catch the low angle sun. The cost of topping those trees would never be returned in solar savings. Most of the year the sun is high enough so those trees aren't a problem.

The dramatic swings in power generation from the roof solar surprise me. Peak power is about 52kW per day midsummer when the days are long and the sun is high in the sky. A full sun day in December might produce 20kW. We've had days of near zero production when there is full overcast and rain. Surprisingly the system always manages some watts even on the worst days.

This chart shows grid power readings from our electric meter (net metering). Up slope means the solar system needed more help from the grid. Down slope means we were feeding power to the grid. We balance with the electric company once a year.

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We installed 5kw 10 years ago, we received $20k rebate from state of Florida and the max IRS credit was $2.5 k( if my 82 year old brain remembers correctly). We have thin film photocells so were slightly more expensive, but are much more robust in a hurricane. Our total outlay was only $25k since I did most of the labor. The system makes about $70 per month so has been paid off for years. Our retirement home is only 2000 ft sq and everything is electric including our water. No other utilities.
Bought a Clarity in July and our electric went up about $50 per month. If I were doing a solar system today, it would not be thin film. Cost of thin film has not reduced significantly while major reduction in convention glass enclosed has occurred.
 
We put our panels in service on the same day that we brought home the Clarity last year, 12/20. So about the same time as the OP. After watching our bill go almost ballistic (and me with it) the previous year ($7744), we knew we had to do something. We put up 20 panels in a 7kW system. There is room on the roof and the inverter for more production, but for now, we're OK. As of today - almost one year - we've produced 10.23 MWh and consumed 14.95. Two years ago, our daily average use was 54kWh/day, last year it went up to 58.39 kWh/day. This year it's currently running at 26.7 kWh/day - December's use will likely drop that a little.

Considering we lost about 3 weeks of production in May due to an inverter failure, the reduction in imported electricity this year was still dramatic. Our net consumption drop was about 60%. At our astronomic So Cal rates (even on NM 2.0, all new systems after 11/1 were forced into a Solar TOU, and summer on-peak rates are almost 53¢/kWh between 4 and 9PM) the payback time won't take as long as we thought. This year, we'll likely save over $3700 over last year - and this comes after the addition of the Clarity. With the 30% tax credit for the solar installation (which included running new 240v lines to the garage and one EVSE) and the $7500 tax credit for the Clarity, we paid back more than half of the funds we took out of HELOC for the solar experience. The savings on electricity this year alone knocks off another 30% of what's left to pay off that loan. We expect to pay off the system in about another year. Note that we had to buy a Clarity to make a big dent in the solar, but I'm still counting it. And the Clarity loan is 0.9%, so that's almost free loan money.

We're still awaiting a 10kWh battery (first quarter of 2019 is the expected data of installation) which should boost savings even more during the expensive summer months. We expect to see about a 5-6% decrease for imported energy as a result (some of the summer energy goes back into the grid; we don't get paid much for it) - but it will save more actual money because the energy we replace will be the expensive summer on-peak juice. In the winter, our rates for all levels are right around 23¢/kWh so the loss in production isn't as critical as it is in the summer when on-peak pricing is the highest.

Where we live, and how our house is situated made solar a good decision. Why it took so long for us to make this decision is a good question, but it wasn't until the last two to three years that the electricity rates started going through the ceiling. What broke the bank, so to speak, was when a "high user charge" was instituted on our tiered rate. That put the rates for an entire day's use - not just a few peak hours - at over 55¢/kWh. That was enough.

Happy with all of it so far, the Clarity AND our Solar Array. And according to SolarEdge, we've saved over 8 TONS of CO2 and 409 equivalent trees planted.

 
That's a shame that the HOA doesn't allow solar panels on the roof. I actually don't think they look that bad and I also think people's eyes are not naturally drawn to the roof of houses. I believe California has laws clearing the path for roof installations so the HOA might not be able to rule against them. Not sure about the details though.

That is correct, no restrictions allowed on rooftop solar in California.
 
Another important consideration for a solar system is having a micro-inverter on each panel instead of a single inverter for the whole system. With individual micro-inverters, if something goes amiss with one panel, it doesn't bring the whole system down.
 
We put our panels in service on the same day that we brought home the Clarity last year, 12/20. So about the same time as the OP. After watching our bill go almost ballistic (and me with it) the previous year ($7744), we knew we had to do something. We put up 20 panels in a 7kW system. There is room on the roof and the inverter for more production, but for now, we're OK. As of today - almost one year - we've produced 10.23 MWh and consumed 14.95. Two years ago, our daily average use was 54kWh/day, last year it went up to 58.39 kWh/day. This year it's currently running at 26.7 kWh/day - December's use will likely drop that a little.

Considering we lost about 3 weeks of production in May due to an inverter failure, the reduction in imported electricity this year was still dramatic. Our net consumption drop was about 60%. At our astronomic So Cal rates (even on NM 2.0, all new systems after 11/1 were forced into a Solar TOU, and summer on-peak rates are almost 53¢/kWh between 4 and 9PM) the payback time won't take as long as we thought. This year, we'll likely save over $3700 over last year - and this comes after the addition of the Clarity. With the 30% tax credit for the solar installation (which included running new 240v lines to the garage and one EVSE) and the $7500 tax credit for the Clarity, we paid back more than half of the funds we took out of HELOC for the solar experience. The savings on electricity this year alone knocks off another 30% of what's left to pay off that loan. We expect to pay off the system in about another year. Note that we had to buy a Clarity to make a big dent in the solar, but I'm still counting it. And the Clarity loan is 0.9%, so that's almost free loan money.

We're still awaiting a 10kWh battery (first quarter of 2019 is the expected data of installation) which should boost savings even more during the expensive summer months. We expect to see about a 5-6% decrease for imported energy as a result (some of the summer energy goes back into the grid; we don't get paid much for it) - but it will save more actual money because the energy we replace will be the expensive summer on-peak juice. In the winter, our rates for all levels are right around 23¢/kWh so the loss in production isn't as critical as it is in the summer when on-peak pricing is the highest.

Where we live, and how our house is situated made solar a good decision. Why it took so long for us to make this decision is a good question, but it wasn't until the last two to three years that the electricity rates started going through the ceiling. What broke the bank, so to speak, was when a "high user charge" was instituted on our tiered rate. That put the rates for an entire day's use - not just a few peak hours - at over 55¢/kWh. That was enough.

Happy with all of it so far, the Clarity AND our Solar Array. And according to SolarEdge, we've saved over 8 TONS of CO2 and 409 equivalent trees planted.
It sounds like your decision to install solar is paying off well. $3,700 savings this year is great.
 
Another important consideration for a solar system is having a micro-inverter on each panel instead of a single inverter for the whole system. With individual micro-inverters, if something goes amiss with one panel, it doesn't bring the whole system down.
Or Optimizers like our system. Same feature.
 
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Things just got a bit better. We received the first year electricity bill from the city following the solar install. In 2017 (pre solar and pre Clarity) we paid $1844.68 for electricity for the whole year. In 2018, after solar was installed and we bought the Clarity, we paid $353.94, a savings of $1490.74. Not only does that include powering the house but charging the Clarity all year as well. We saved $1,016.99 in auto fuel so the total electricity savings plus auto fuel savings is $2,507.73.

I'm very pleased at this outcome and expect our 2019 year will be just a little better. On top of all of that we get to drive the Clarity every day.
 
Love the savings, hate the hype. Before going solar, I researched what it meant to go solar and spoke with various solar companies. I learned two things. 1. Solar companies really range in terms of their knowledge and 2. The promise of solar is overhyped! The full benefits of going solar can't be achieved without a battery option....isn't the idea of solar to automatically charge my home when my power goes out?
 
I'd be happy to just save on my electric bill. The promise of power during an outage is nice if you have that, but usually not an issue for me. i.e. if outage during winter I have an alternate heating and cooking source (living in Oregon). The one case where I really miss power is if we get smoke from fires and I cannot run AC. Anyway, one can check their solar hours using a website here: https://sunroof.withgoogle.com/

It shows you a picture of your roof (satellite view) and estimates 'solar hours.'

I live inside a natural oak forest so my roof doesn't have much sun exposure. Anyway, reason I don't bite. I like the idea so much that if we move, I'd look for something with more sun exposure.
 
I’m pretty satisfied with the money saving aspect of solar. I’ve had solar for about a year and saved $4k in electricity with 1:1 net metering. My electric rate is pretty high up here in MA, so that certainly helps with payback. Looking to install an inverter on my car to power up my refrigerator, gas heating system and a few lights. With my clarity I have a home battery backup of 17 kw with a handy engine to power up that battery if need be!
 
Love the savings, hate the hype. Before going solar, I researched what it meant to go solar and spoke with various solar companies. I learned two things. 1. Solar companies really range in terms of their knowledge and 2. The promise of solar is overhyped! The full benefits of going solar can't be achieved without a battery option....isn't the idea of solar to automatically charge my home when my power goes out?
Actually, no, providing power to your home when the power is out is not the main idea of solar at all. The point is to generate your own clean power and not have to buy it from the utility. How solar best works varies a lot by state and the rules for utilities on how they credit you when your solar is generating more power than your house is using. In CT, you get credits basically equal to the power you are giving to the utility. In that case there is no need to store your own with a battery system since they "store" it for you.

So, battery storage only makes sense for certain situations. Some states/utilities credit systems are not consumer friendly, making battery storage more beneficial.
 
Love the savings, hate the hype. Before going solar, I researched what it meant to go solar and spoke with various solar companies. I learned two things. 1. Solar companies really range in terms of their knowledge and 2. The promise of solar is overhyped! The full benefits of going solar can't be achieved without a battery option....isn't the idea of solar to automatically charge my home when my power goes out?

“Charge my home”? What research led you to that conclusion? Do you live in a battery?

What does it mean to go solar? Do you believe it’s the same for everyone?

For an owner of an all electric home with a heat pump, air conditioning, electric range, electric water heater, well pump, jacuzzi and possibly the need for charging a car, it could be cost prohibitive to install a solar array and battery backup for such a home. It may be more appropriate to install solar panels to offset some or all of the electricity consumed, and install a generator for occasional power outages.

Electricity rates, TOU plans, alternative fuels and region are also factors.
 
Home batteries are overhyped and overpriced, unless you have a need to go off the grid completely. Note for emergency backup power, if you have natural gas, there are now a number of portable natural gas generators available for under $1000 that can keep your essentials going. The hassle of keeping a gasoline fired generator going during a long outage is awful, especially when all the local gas stations are also lacking power. These portable generators make a lot more economic sense than the whole house type generators that cost $15k and up. OTOH a vehicle based battery that can be used to run your house does make sense, like the new Ramcharger might be.
 
I live in MA and when I got solar the company that did the installation was quite firm that batteries made no sense here and they felt I would be dissatisfied with them if they installed it for me. In some states with TOU rates and garbage net metering it might make sense to install batteries. CA sounds like there could be a financial case made, but not in MA with 1:1 net metering for both generation and delivery costs. We’ve lost power an inordinate number of times over the past few months, so I’m looking into a bypass panel combined with an inverter for the car. I should be able to power my refrigerator and gas heating system, along with a few lights, to get me over the hump for a few days. I’m too old (and absolutely too lazy) to be dragging a generator out when I lose power.
 
Portable generators and extension cords through windows and across the floor can get the job done. I’ve been there before. For us, the cost savings isn’t worth the inconvenience.

A few nights ago, in Michigan, the power went out at 1:45am. Outside temperatures were in the single digits Fahrenheit. The natural gas generator started while we slept and provided power until 11:00am. Priceless. There have been outages that lasted a week, almost always in winter, during a blizzard.

In Oregon, we have solar and battery backup. The batteries are FLA’s, which are much lower cost than lithium and, more than suitable for a grid-tied application. They’ve gotten us through numerous outages of less than 24 hours and one outage that lasted 8 days.

May these short stories enlighten those who believe they have the most suitable solution for others.
 
Portable generators and extension cords through windows and across the floor can get the job done. I’ve been there before. For us, the cost savings isn’t worth the inconvenience.

A few nights ago, in Michigan, the power went out at 1:45am. Outside temperatures were in the single digits Fahrenheit. The natural gas generator started while we slept and provided power until 11:00am. Priceless. There have been outages that lasted a week, almost always in winter, during a blizzard.

In Oregon, we have solar and battery backup. The batteries are FLA’s, which are much lower cost than lithium and, more than suitable for a grid-tied application. They’ve gotten us through numerous outages of less than 24 hours and one outage that lasted 8 days.

May these short stories enlighten those who believe they have the most suitable solution for others.
Welcome (again) to Michigan! If you come for the snow, we finally have some for you. I have a small Honda generator I drag out to keep the furnace, water heater, TV, phones, and 'net going. It can't charge our cars, however. We've needed it only twice in the last dozen years, but an outage makes for an adventure that helps us appreciate our relatively advanced civilization.
 
I didn't dare even suggest using the front yard for such a practical purpose. My home is unfortunately located in a HOA neighborhood which bans solar panels from roofs. :(

I'd be very, very happy to see the practical needs of solar power installations triumph over the importance that far too many people place on appearance. I'd love to see solar power installations front yards become commonplace. But I don't expect that to happen; humans are very poor at long-term planning.

"Times change. People don't." -- John Caples
Fortunently here in Minnesota they passed alaw last year preventing HOA from banning solar..so it is on my list


As of July 1, 2023, Minnesota is one of the 28 states where HOA's must allow solar. Because one in four Minnesota homeowners live in an HOA, this law ensures that rooftop solar will continue to grow in our state. If your HOA already allowed solar installations, nothing has changed for you.
 
I've been very happy with the net-metered solar system on our home. For power outages though, I installed a 10-circuit manual transfer switch so I can selectively power any of my home's 120v circuits as needed. My travel trailer (parked by the garage) has an additional 800 watts of solar panels, 420 amp hours of lithium (lifepo4) batteries, and a 2200 watt inverter, so I use that system to power my home during short (3-4 hours) outages. The trailer always is connected to my home's transfer switch so I don't even have to step outside to switch over the power. For outages longer than that (which occur very rarely here), I can roll out and fire up a portable 3500w gas generator. My RV tow vehicle ('96 Suburban) has a 42 gallon gas tank (which I keep full in case we ever need to evacuate due to a fire), so I always have plenty of gas on hand for the generator. Add into the mix my smaller 2500w dual-fuel generator and all the propane we keep on hand, and I figure we could comfortably go a few weeks without grid power.
 
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