Musk was right to punk shill 'analysts' in conference call!!!

[Pushmi-Pullyu]

Model 3 cancellation: It is very important. People were shown a $35k car , and many line waiters and early reservationists accounted for the $7500 tax credit. Why else bother waiting in line? Then midway, Elon changes the rules of the game and pushes these people out of the tax credit, to the back of the line as outcasts!

Good grief.


I don't know who is worse, regarding posting stuff on this forum which is wildly wrong or, as they say, "not even wrong" -- you or 101101.

None of that is true. As just one example: Nobody with an existing Model 3 reservation has been pushed to the back of the line.

I presume you're just trolling here, trying to provoke an outraged response. I presume that you're not really foolish enough to believe any of your own "fake news" FUD.
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[Pushmi-Pullyu]

@Pushmi-Pullyu the wired article was "not in depth" it was [CENSORED], most of what Wired does on Tesla is [CENSORED] ...at the level of MIT Technology Review or 'Ars.'

Hmm, well Wired articles are generally quite well written, but not as technically oriented as MIT Tech Review or Ars Technia. Wired apparently follows the same school of journalism as Rolling Stone magazine; smart, hip, and well informed. The writing and journalism standards there are exceptional. One thing I really like about Wired is that they're not afraid to run longer, in-depth articles. They don't assume their readers will lose interest after just a few paragraphs, as all too many news sources do.

The MIT Tech Review is one of the very best sources of tech info on the entire internet, while still written so that the average non-specialized but scientifically literate reader can understand their articles. The writing/journalism standards are not up to those of Wired; that's not their strong suit.

So you've given quite a compliment to the other two websites. Personally I don't think Ars Technia is quite up to the standards of the MIT site, but it's not too far down the totem pole; it's still one of the best sources for in-depth analysis of current or new tech.

Perhaps, 101101 (or should we call you "Hyphen"?), things are rather different in the alternate reality which exists only inside your head.
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[Martin Williams]

I want only one thing from these second-hand sites. That is a link to the source paper so I can make my own mind up

These 'Science for dummies' sites often misinterpret the paper and draw entirely unjustified conclusions. This gets worse when they are in turn misinterpreted by people on sites like this.

 

[Martin Williams]

Model 3 cancellation: It is very important. People were shown a $35k car , and many line waiters and early reservationists accounted for the $7500 tax credit. Why else bother waiting in line? Then midway, Elon changes the rules of the game and pushes these people out of the tax credit, to the back of the line as outcasts!
"Bait and switch" comes to the mind. Many other bad words also come to my mind. I predict 70% will disappear due to competitive offerings, tax credit expiry and bait and switch.

Can you please explain this to a Brit, unfamiliar with your tax laws and the position of people who have paid a deposit to Tesla.

 

[TeslaInvestors]

Can you please explain this to a Brit, unfamiliar with your tax laws and the position of people who have paid a deposit to Tesla.

Please read the article just published by insideevs yesterday, especially the explanation.
https://insideevs.com/top-6-automakers-200000-federal-tax-credit-limit/

The qualified plug-in electric drive motor vehicle credit phases out for a manufacturer’s vehicles over the one-year period beginning with the second calendar quarter after the calendar quarter in which at least 200,000 qualifying vehicles manufactured by that manufacturer have been sold for use in the United States (determined on a cumulative basis for sales after December 31, 2009) (“phase-out period”).

Qualifying vehicles manufactured by that manufacturer are eligible for 50 percent of the credit if acquired in the first two quarters of the phase-out period and 25 percent of the credit if acquired in the third or fourth quarter of the phase-out period. Vehicles manufactured by that manufacturer are not eligible for a credit if acquired after the phase-out period.

Here is the direct link to IRS website:
https://www.irs.gov/businesses/plug-in-electric-vehicle-credit-irc-30-and-irc-30d

What is most unfortunate, is that IRS is handing out money for these and the credit depends on when a manufacturer sells 200,000th car, but most of the manufacturers are not even disclosing their quarterly US sales to IRS! If you click the link, only Ford Mercedes and BMW numbers are available on the IRS website. It boggles the mind.

So now the consumers are left with a guessing game of when some car maker hits the 200,000 mark. In Tesla's case, their sales people casually drop this as a scare tactics. They have also called Model 3 reservationists saying credit won't be available when their turn comes, trying to convince them to buy a Model S & X instead to get the credit. I know several who were mislead like this. Just 2 days back, I had to refute few people on a popular site (nextdoor) who were mistakenly repeating the Tesla rep's lie about the credit expiring this June. I pointed to insideevs quote and stopped that lie from spreading further, advising people to do their own research and check IRS website.

My guess is, Tesla's full credit extends till December. They will post another poor Model 3 ramp for Q2 (prefixed with another load of excuses) and also shift some sales to Canada to delay selling the 200,000th vehicle to Q3 of 2018. Of course, the rules can change to extend it further. Who knows what the GM and Tesla lobbyists will achieve.

So how does it affect Model 3 sales ? Those who might have thought they will get a sleek looking long range Tesla for net around $25000 ($35000 promised MSRP - $7500 tax credit - $2500 to $5000 other rebates) are now looking at $36k. And due to them being put at the end of the waiting queue (no short range $35k till 2019), it will no longer be cool as there will be many thousands of these on the road already. This basically ruins all the benefits of waiting in line to place the reservation at the earliest possible.

 

[Pushmi-Pullyu]

So now the consumers are left with a guessing game of when some car maker hits the 200,000 mark. In Tesla's case, their sales people casually drop this as a scare tactics. They have also called Model 3 reservationists saying credit won't be available when their turn comes, trying to convince them to buy a Model S & X instead to get the credit. I know several who were mislead like this. Just 2 days back, I had to refute few people on a popular site (nextdoor) who were mistakenly repeating the Tesla rep's lie about the credit expiring this June.

Given all the FUD you post about Tesla and its cars, we have no reason to believe any of your claims to have any personal experience with this is true.

Most likely, you merely read a thread on the Tesla Motors Club with complaints about Tesla salesmen mistakenly claiming the tax credit is very close to running out, and you've chosen to pretend to have had personal experience with that, as well as mis-characterizing it as a "lie" rather than confusion over the date. I won't go into just how deep the hypocrisy is for you to accuse someone else of lying.

There is indeed a great deal of confusion over the date of the expiration of the full tax credit (after which it drops to 50%), as you can see from the wildly different assertions about it posted in comments to InsideEVs! In fact, I myself was misinformed about the date, thinking it's December 31 of this year, instead of... well, I'm still not sure of the exact date, but if my understanding is correct -- which it may not be -- it's 90 days after the end of the 2nd quarter this year.
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[Martin Williams]

Are there not two versions of this car? You only get the advertised mileage and performance if you buy a rather more expensive one anyway.

Not that Tesla is the only car company playing these tricks. It seems to be standard to advertise the top of the range vehicles and all their gimmicks but with the price of the cheapest most basic model.

It is only when you have decided to buy that you realise that you are going to have to pay a lot more than you thought you would.

 

[Domenick]

Are there not two versions of this car? You only get the advertised mileage and performance if you buy a rather more expensive one anyway.

Not that Tesla is the only car company playing these tricks. It seems to be standard to advertise the top of the range vehicles and all their gimmicks but with the price of the cheapest most basic model.

It is only when you have decided to buy that you realise that you are going to have to pay a lot more than you thought you would.

There is indeed a long range version (310 miles) which is available now, and a standard battery version (220 miles), which should be out later this summer.

They only offered the one version now -- long range battery, rear wheel drive, upgraded interior -- to keep the production possible as simple as possible to begin and keep margins high. They've done similar with every product launched.

Of course, some might not realize this and thought they can get the $35,000 version before the US $7,500 tax credit expired, and so some number may cancel their order for this or other reasons. It seems as though quite a number have canceled reservations, but then just as many seemed to make them.

There is still a 450,000 + backlog of orders, despite all the churn.

 

[Martin Williams]

When you say available now I assume you mean some time in the next three and a half years it will take Tesla to meet their order book.

So how much is the 220 mile version, and how much is the 310 mile versions? For simplicity, let's leave any bribes, grants, subsidies, tax breaks etc out of the question

 

[Domenick]

When you say available now I assume you mean some time in the next three and a half years it will take Tesla to meet their order book.

So how much is the 220 mile version, and how much is the 310 mile versions? For simplicity, let's leave any bribes, grants, subsidies, tax breaks etc out of the question

220-mile Model 3 is base $35,000. Long-range is $44,000.
People have been receiving the long-range rear wheel drive, but all-wheel-drive and regular batteries should start shipping by the end of June.

 

[Martin Williams]

Thanks for that. It seems Tesla has done the usual of promising a high spec model whilst implying that it can be had for the low spec price. Can't really blame them. Everyone in the car advertising business seems to do it.

It seems that even those hoping for the more expensive variant will be very lucky to get it very soon if the reports of falling production figures reported elsewhere are true. I hope the deposits paid are returnable to those who get fed up and buy something else.

 

[Domenick]

Thanks for that. It seems Tesla has done the usual of promising a high spec model whilst implying that it can be had for the low spec price. Can't really blame them. Everyone in the car advertising business seems to do it.

It seems that even those hoping for the more expensive variant will be very lucky to get it very soon if the reports of falling production figures reported elsewhere are true. I hope the deposits paid are returnable to those who get fed up and buy something else.

No, they never implied the high spec model could be had for a low spec price. They said the Model 3 would start at $35,000, which it will, once they actually start building base models.
Cancellations have their deposits returned.

 

[Martin Williams]

Well, I don't really see how you can 'start' with a base model if you can't have one because they are producing a more expensive one first, but it's not worth arguing about.