Mega Thread for Tesla Investors
I'm expecting the Saudi to dump Tesla stock early next week:
https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/12/middleeast/khashoggi-saudi-turkey-recordings-intl/index.html
There are reports that a Saudi investment meeting is seeing a lot of folks bailing out:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/busi...s-modernization-plans/?utm_term=.c0bdaac6af62
Reports are the Saudi hold ~2% of the Tesla stock. If they hold a retaliation sale, TSLA stock will drop until the 'shorts' have run out of money. Of course this will wipe out the short holding of TSLA. Musk should send a fully loaded Roadster in thanks to the Saudi for ending the 'short' holdings.
Bob Wilson
https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/12/middleeast/khashoggi-saudi-turkey-recordings-intl/index.html
Missing Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi may have recorded his own death, a Turkish newspaper reported Saturday morning.
Khashoggi turned on the recording function of his Apple Watch before walking into the Saudi consulate in Istanbul on October 2, according to Sabah newspaper.
The moments of his "interrogation, torture and killing were audio recorded and sent to both his phone and to iCloud," the pro-government, privately owned newspaper paper reported. The Turkish newspaper said conversations of the men involved in the reported assassination were recorded.
Khashoggi turned on the recording function of his Apple Watch before walking into the Saudi consulate in Istanbul on October 2, according to Sabah newspaper.
The moments of his "interrogation, torture and killing were audio recorded and sent to both his phone and to iCloud," the pro-government, privately owned newspaper paper reported. The Turkish newspaper said conversations of the men involved in the reported assassination were recorded.
There are reports that a Saudi investment meeting is seeing a lot of folks bailing out:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/busi...s-modernization-plans/?utm_term=.c0bdaac6af62
The growing number of Western companies distancing themselves from Saudi Arabia over the alleged killing of dissident Jamal Khashoggi is undermining the kingdom’s push to diversify its economy beyond oil and provide more opportunities for its young and often restive population.
By Friday afternoon, nearly a dozen tech, media and entertainment companies had backed out of a Saudi investment conference to be held this month, as dismay over Saudi agents’ alleged murder of Khashoggi spread to companies that Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman has tried to woo.
...
By Friday afternoon, nearly a dozen tech, media and entertainment companies had backed out of a Saudi investment conference to be held this month, as dismay over Saudi agents’ alleged murder of Khashoggi spread to companies that Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman has tried to woo.
...
Reports are the Saudi hold ~2% of the Tesla stock. If they hold a retaliation sale, TSLA stock will drop until the 'shorts' have run out of money. Of course this will wipe out the short holding of TSLA. Musk should send a fully loaded Roadster in thanks to the Saudi for ending the 'short' holdings.
Bob Wilson
interestedinEV
Well-Known Member
I have tried to stay clear of criticizing anyone, but this getting to be ridiculous. The Tesla is a safer car than most other cars, and at no time has anyone in Tesla encouraged anyone to drive unsafely. For example, the seat belt is a safety feature, and if you want to bypass it you can (just buckle it and put the belt behind your back). That is not the manufacturers fault that you used it an unsafe way. The onus is always on the driver to follow reasonable and prudent practices. The premise of your argument appears to be "Tesla has made a claim that their car is very safe (as compared to other cars), and as result some drivers have a "false sense of security" and are hence being idiotic, and hence Elon is to blame for the actions of these people". If we follow your argument, than we should actually make cars less safe, so that no one gets this feeling of being invincible.
Again, I am not sure why it makes a difference if you are "noisy" killer as opposed to a "silent" killer. If you behave stupidly, the decibel level of the vehicle should not be a factor.
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TeslaInvestors
Active Member
The biggest issue is the 0-60 mph and the associated bragging, not the safety claim. That's just an added bonus.
The difference with noisy car is that the noise alerts other drivers/pedestrians of the nearby car approaching fast. Silence doesn't have that benefit, as it is harder to know. How many times have you been overtaken by a speeding Tesla on highway on ramps?
To be fair, I will add that some luxury cars make it harder to hear outside noises also, becuase they are sound proofed very well. That is also little dangerous.
When some people pay 60k for the bragging rights of 0-60, where do they demonstrate that? Well, of course, on our public roadways without the trouble of paying extra for a race course visit and going there!
The bigger issue is the acceleration and speed and to some degre, the silence. I don't see why Tesla can't restrict some of that, at least in the residential neighborhoods.
Lots of people are buying SUVs/CUVs because they feel they will be safer around so many large SUVs on the road.
If we have more of these speeding torpedoes, more people will try to supersize their cars to be safer on the road, defeating the global warming cause.
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TeslaInvestors
Active Member
Thanks for the info. But your logic here seems totally screwed up and these sentences don't make any sense.
* I thought Saudis acquired ~5% of Tesla, but I'm not certain.
* If Saudis can't invest anywhere, then they may invest more in Tesla. Why will they dump Tesla? Tesla will be known as a Saudi kingdom company.
* Shorts don't need money to cover the short position. I don't understand your point about them running out of money to cover their positions.
* If you are really lucky, you may one day buy up all the Tesla shares without breaking your bank account, at $0! What a bargain price that will be.
All the shorts will do too! Shorts will be totally annihilated at that point. You can still ask Elon to send each short a free Roadster, since there won't be buyers of those cars without any warranty
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interestedinEV
Well-Known Member
Well I would really feel safer in a tank, but it is not practical.
EV technology allows you accelerate faster. That is the power of an electric motor over a ICE. Could Tesla slow that down? Yes they could. Could they restrict speeds in certain neighborhoods? Yes they could? Could people by pass these controls? Yes they could.
Would most citizens (myself included) want my automobile manufacturer dictating how I can drive? NO. At a certain point it is individual responsibility, not the manufacturers. The idiots who want to prove that they better than Dale Earnhardt need to be dealt with appropriately.
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Pushmi-Pullyu
Well-Known Member
Indeed, the increasingly desperate, increasingly clownish FUD posted by "TeslaInvestors" is beginning to remind me of Baghdad Bob, the Iraqi Minister of Information during Gulf War II, who continued to proclaim in televised announcements that Iraqi forces were winning "the mother of all battles" against the American invaders, even as American tanks were rolling into Baghdad!
"TeslaInvestors" ought to make this his avatar:
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This dangerous nonsense led to S.841, "Pedestrian Safety Act", to 'Bell the Hybrid', the Prius:
http://hiwaay.net/~bzwilson/prius/Prius_Fatal_Accidents/index.html
It turns out there is a hazard in the NHTSA data, the "A" pillar. But distracted by the nonsense noise screeds, this hazard remains unaddressed. We don't prosecute the innocent for a crime because it means the true criminal remains free to kill again and again.
The only idiots who are loudest about 'noise' are motorcycle hog riders. After all, they have nothing better to do than announce their foolishness.
Of course there may be other reasons:
Bob Wilson
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interestedinEV
Well-Known Member
Or those with blaring music and open windows and the noise gets to be distracting.
I just learned how to prevent my TSLA stock from being shorted:
Bob Wilson
- Order the broker to sell at 3-5x the current price.
Bob Wilson
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interestedinEV
Well-Known Member
Just trying to understand. If I have shares in my brokerage account, can my broker loan them out without my express permission? This seems illegal. Is there any other way of preventing it.
I called my broker earlier today to correct some old information. Then I asked about blocking the 'loaning' of my stock. He did not give an answer. So I kept looking (i.e., Google.)
In practice, selling my stock requires the shares to exist. So it makes sense that putting in a sell order would require having the shares ready. However, there is an open question about how big of a difference between the last trade and sell order may lead to gamesmanship:
- last trade, $100, and sell at $110 - very likely to complete
- last trade, $100, and sell at $130 - less likely to complete
- last trade, $100, and sell at $200 - oh come on, probably days to resolve
Bob Wilson
interestedinEV
Well-Known Member
I did some research on this and found this. A custodial account, where the broker is mere custodian, there are more restrictions. However, if it is a margin account, the broker has to have ability to sell your shares to meet shortfalls (e.g. you are over extended and the broker wants to call the loan). So they have a contract with you and in that contract they may have sneaked in a clause that allows them to loan your shares. That is why you cannot prevent them from doing it. Sneaky, they make the money on your shares and you get nothing out of it. You can call the shares any time by putting a sell order, so your shares are not really at risk but the broker will just take it from someone else to keep the loan intact. The point is if you are expecting the shares to go up, you do not want to lend to someone who is going to make the shares go down. So @bwilson4web strategy will work as long as you are watching the shares and keep increasing the limit as share price goes up.
interestedinEV
Well-Known Member
@TeslaInvestors has either taken a break or decided to withdraw, but here is an article from a more technical magazine trying to put Elon in perspective.
https://www.popularmechanics.com/space/rockets/a23508636/defense-of-elon-musk/
In Defense of Elon Musk
He is under attack. For tweeting the wrong thing, for not making enough cars, for appearing unstable. Some of the criticisms have merit. Much of it is myopic and small-brained, from sideline observers gleefully salivating at the opportunity to take him down a peg. But what have these stock analysts and pontificators done for humanity?
Elon Musk is an engineer at heart, a tinkerer, a problem-solver—the kind of person Popular Mechanics has always championed—and the problems he’s trying to solve are hard. Really hard. He could find better ways to spend his money, that’s for sure. And yet there he is, trying to build gasless cars and build reusable rockets and build tunnels that make traffic go away. For all his faults and unpredictability, we need him out there doing that. We need people who have ideas. We need people who take risks.
We need people who try.
https://www.popularmechanics.com/space/rockets/a23508636/defense-of-elon-musk/
In Defense of Elon Musk
He is under attack. For tweeting the wrong thing, for not making enough cars, for appearing unstable. Some of the criticisms have merit. Much of it is myopic and small-brained, from sideline observers gleefully salivating at the opportunity to take him down a peg. But what have these stock analysts and pontificators done for humanity?
Elon Musk is an engineer at heart, a tinkerer, a problem-solver—the kind of person Popular Mechanics has always championed—and the problems he’s trying to solve are hard. Really hard. He could find better ways to spend his money, that’s for sure. And yet there he is, trying to build gasless cars and build reusable rockets and build tunnels that make traffic go away. For all his faults and unpredictability, we need him out there doing that. We need people who have ideas. We need people who take risks.
We need people who try.
Tesla filed this with the SEC:
http://ir.tesla.com/node/19186/html
Bob Wilson
http://ir.tesla.com/node/19186/html
...
Number of Shares Beneficially Owned by Each Reporting Person With
5. Sole Voting Power* 7,000,711
6. Shared Voting Power* 0
7. Sole Dispositive Power* 17,419,812
8. Shared Dispositive Power 0
9. Aggregate Amount Beneficially Owned by Each Reporting Person
17,419,812
10. Check Box if the Aggregate Amount in Row (9) Excludes Certain Shares
NOT APPLICABLE
11. Percent of Class Represented by Amount in Row 9
10.2%
Item 2(a) Name of Person(s) Filing:
(1) T. ROWE PRICE ASSOCIATES, INC. ("Price Associates")
So I'm wondering if T. ROWE PRICE is supporting ~10,000,000 'short' shares?Number of Shares Beneficially Owned by Each Reporting Person With
5. Sole Voting Power* 7,000,711
6. Shared Voting Power* 0
7. Sole Dispositive Power* 17,419,812
8. Shared Dispositive Power 0
9. Aggregate Amount Beneficially Owned by Each Reporting Person
17,419,812
10. Check Box if the Aggregate Amount in Row (9) Excludes Certain Shares
NOT APPLICABLE
11. Percent of Class Represented by Amount in Row 9
10.2%
Item 2(a) Name of Person(s) Filing:
(1) T. ROWE PRICE ASSOCIATES, INC. ("Price Associates")
Bob Wilson
Oh man! CNBC's "LORA KOLODNY" really hates Musk: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/19/cnbcs-lora-kolodny-elon-musks-extreme-micro-management-has-wasted-time-and-money-at-tesla-insiders-say.html?__source=yahoo|finance|headline|story|&par=yahoo&yptr=yahoo
Imagine an article culled from ex-employees, many bitter at being fired or pissed after leaving. Yet the things I admire about Musk still come through. Bitter because Musk doesn't do 'business as usual' seems to be the common theme. But it may not be her fault:
It looks like she may have collected interviews but someone at CNBC decided to change the article header by SHOUTING their bile.
Bob Wilson
CNBC'S LORA KOLODNY: ELON MUSK'S EXTREME MICRO-MANAGEMENT HAS WASTED TIME AND MONEY AT TESLA, INSIDERS SAY
. . .
. . .
Imagine an article culled from ex-employees, many bitter at being fired or pissed after leaving. Yet the things I admire about Musk still come through. Bitter because Musk doesn't do 'business as usual' seems to be the common theme. But it may not be her fault:
It looks like she may have collected interviews but someone at CNBC decided to change the article header by SHOUTING their bile.
Bob Wilson
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Pushmi-Pullyu
Well-Known Member
Hmmm, I was ready to denounce this as just more of CNBC's "pravduh". But reading thru the article, it's surprisingly free of the anti-Tesla bias seen all too frequently in articles and videos at CNBS.Yes, Elon's micro-management has indeed wasted time and money at Tesla. But I think most reasonable industry analysts would agree that Elon's positive influence on Tesla has vastly outweighed his negative influence. That's not to say that going forward, Elon's micro-management style is going to suit an ever-growing company like Tesla. But certainly he seems to have been the right man at the right time in years past.
Just ask yourself this: Where would Tesla be today if it had as its CEO and Chairman of the Board, from 2008-2018, someone hired from a legacy gasmobile auto maker? Would it have three models of cars in production, with publicly presented working prototypes of a 4th car and a heavy truck? Would it be selling one of the 5 top-selling cars in the U.S.? Of course we can only guess, but I think it's most likely that the answer is not only "No", but "Hell no!" In fact, without a billionaire CEO who was willing to bet his entire personal fortune at one point to keep Tesla afloat, Tesla today would be gone, just a sad footnote in history.
With any CEO, no matter who it is, we have to take the bad with the good. As the old saying goes: "Love me, love my dog."
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TeslaInvestors
Active Member
Oh my my! This must cause too much pain for the Tesla acolytes, seeing Tesla's dirty linens being washed on the street.Oh man! CNBC's "LORA KOLODNY" really hates Musk: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/19/cnbcs-lora-kolodny-elon-musks-extreme-micro-management-has-wasted-time-and-money-at-tesla-insiders-say.html?__source=yahoo|finance|headline|story|&par=yahoo&yptr=yahoo
CNBC'S LORA KOLODNY: ELON MUSK'S EXTREME MICRO-MANAGEMENT HAS WASTED TIME AND MONEY AT TESLA, INSIDERS SAY
. . .
Imagine an article culled from ex-employees, many bitter at being fired or pissed after leaving. Yet the things I admire about Musk still come through. Bitter because Musk doesn't do 'business as usual' seems to be the common theme. But it may not be her fault:
It looks like she may have collected interviews but someone at CNBC decided to change the article header by SHOUTING their bile.
Bob Wilson
As the title says, its the insiders saying things, not Lora. If she is making things up, then she should be. But in the past, Elon has just eaten crow on her articles and kept quiet; she must have done her work right to defend against the twitter abuser who can instantly turn the Tesla bro club against any reporter saying anything negative.
The biggest point there seems to be the accountingtrickery used by Tesla? Or is there anything else?
The popular mechanich piece about everyone attacking Elon? Doesn't look anything like science. If you defraud everyone, sooner or later the day of reckoning comes.
Cramer has another point of view:
Bob Wilson
Bob Wilson
Pushmi-Pullyu
Well-Known Member
You're parroting pravduh very well, you deserve a reward:
Don't you have anything original to say, at all? It's your own thread here. Doesn't it deserve more than parroting pravduh?
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