Bil Crowell
New Member
Will the mach-E charger work on a 40amp circuit with a 14-50 plug
Mach-e charger
- Thread starter Bil Crowell
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Domenick
Well-Known Member
I'm not positive, but I think code would require a 50-amp circuit for a 40-amp charger.
Bil Crowell
New Member
The mach-E charger has a max 33amps which should work on a 40amp circuit with a 14-50 plug
Bil Crowell
New Member
The mach-E has a max 33amps which should work on a 40amp breaker with a 14-50 plug
Fastnf
Well-Known Member
The short answer is yes.
The long answer follows:
The Mach E portable EVSE (charger) is rated at 30 amps so it will work on a 40 amp circuit breaker. The code allows the use of NEMA 14-50 outlet on a 40 amp circuit as there is no existing 40 amp NEMA plug. So the code has you step up to the next higher rated plug but maintain a 40 amp circuit breaker with the appropriate wire size.
Note you cannot use a 50 amp circuit breaker with wire sized for a 40 amp circuit breaker.
Nor should you plug a charger rated at 40 amps into a plug with a 40 amp circuit breaker.
Chargers are a continuous load devise and code requires that the continuous device use no more than 80% (32 amps) of the circuit breakers maximum load
Also note that the Mach E is capable of charging at up 48 amps. If you have a charger capable of the full 48 amps it should be hard wired in to a 60 amp breaker with the appropriate wire size.
The long answer follows:
The Mach E portable EVSE (charger) is rated at 30 amps so it will work on a 40 amp circuit breaker. The code allows the use of NEMA 14-50 outlet on a 40 amp circuit as there is no existing 40 amp NEMA plug. So the code has you step up to the next higher rated plug but maintain a 40 amp circuit breaker with the appropriate wire size.
Note you cannot use a 50 amp circuit breaker with wire sized for a 40 amp circuit breaker.
Nor should you plug a charger rated at 40 amps into a plug with a 40 amp circuit breaker.
Chargers are a continuous load devise and code requires that the continuous device use no more than 80% (32 amps) of the circuit breakers maximum load
Also note that the Mach E is capable of charging at up 48 amps. If you have a charger capable of the full 48 amps it should be hard wired in to a 60 amp breaker with the appropriate wire size.
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Domenick
Well-Known Member
Thank you for this. I didn't realize he was talking about the portable charger.
Bil Crowell
New Member
When my house was built he installed 6 guage cable h3 wire capable of 60 amp circuit breaker with no plug just box.
With 40amp circuit breaker. Can the mach-e charger plug be removed and hard wired to a compatible socket for the 6 guage cable or do I have to get an after market charger and change the circuit breaker to 50 or 60 amps and get a faster charge.
Fastnf
Well-Known Member
The NEMA 14-50 socket is compatible with 6 gauge wire. The minimum is 8 gauge for a 40 amp circuit. Going larger is not an issue.
You can either add a 14-50 socket to the box and connect it to the 6 gauge wire on the 40 amp circuit breaker or you can hard wire (remove plug) your portable charger directly to the 6 gauge wire. The code allows for using lager wire with a smaller circuit breaker as there is no hazard from this. The circuit breaker should always be the weak link in the chain.
My choice would be to add the 14-50 socket as you retain the ability to take the charger with you when you travel. Also with the 14-50 socket and 6 gauge wire you could up grade the circuit breaker in the future if you get a higher amperage EVSE charger
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Bil Crowell
New Member
Can you add a 14-50 socket to a 3 wire 6 guage cable?#
Fastnf
Well-Known Member
It depends. Often the ground is not counted in Romex so a 6/3 actually has 4 wires if you include counting the ground. Check yours and make sure how many wires there are. Note the ground wire is usually not insulated and is one gauge size smaller than the other wires. Be safe and make sure the circuit breaker is off before looking. If its just 3 wires, 2 Hots and a ground you can install a NEMA 6-50 socket which is a three wire socket and does not include a neutral wire. Then you have two option. You can get an plug adapter from NEMA 6-50 p to a NEMA 14-50r. With the adapter you don't need to change the EVSE(charger) plug. Here's a link the an example adapter.
https://smile.amazon.com/ONETAK-Wel...p+to+14-50p+adapter+ev&qid=1629384945&sr=8-10
The other option is to install the NEMA 6-50 socket and change the plug on you EVSE to match.
I would go with the adapter that way if there is any issue later with the EVSE it has not been modified and will still be under warranty
Bil Crowell
New Member
Thank you so much for your excellent suggestions The adapter is the life saver. I assume that the 40amp 50amp and 60amp circuits are the same physical size so I can upgrade since my panel is full
Fastnf
Well-Known Member
Yes 40, 50, and 60 amp breakers are all the same size. They also make tandem breakers which are half size. These allow for installation of additional breakers if the panel is maxed out with full sized breakers.
Here is a photo of a panel with all tandem (half size breakers) which doubled the capacity of the panel.
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Bil Crowell
New Member
Why does Ford recommend 50amp breaker when their charger has a max of 30
Why does Ford tell you to get a 50amp breaker with a 14-50 socket when their charger for the mach-E has a max of 30amps.
A 40AMP breaker should handle 32 amps?
Fastnf
Well-Known Member
My guess is they went with what had the simplest approach and least amount of liability. If you have a 50 amp plug paired with a 50 amp breaker you will never run into a problem with that. However if you pair it with a 40 amp breaker it will only work with 32 amp rated EVSE’s.
If Joe EV gets a 40 amp EVSE and doesn’t know better he looks at the plug and says “same plug , should work.” But it doesn’t it keep tripping the circuit breaker! Now he is mad at Ford because they said “it only requiered a 40 amp breaker! Not Fords fault but still easier to recommend a 50 amp breaker that works with anything you can plug into it.
Frank Pierson`
Member
Ford also does not know the distance of wire needed to your receptacle. If you have a non attached garage and your electrical service is on the far end of your house away from your Garage, The run may be quite long. Over 300 ft will suffer voltage losses somewhere between 20 and 40 volts. Depending on the type and size of cable and load. That will cause amperage's to go up.
Current (I) is directly proportional to voltage (E), as the voltage lowers, so will the current and more importantly ... the Power (P) (measured in watts, less potential = less work performed)
I*E=P
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Frank Pierson`
Member
Conversely, with a constant output of the load, As the volt's drop, the amps go up. Watts are watts. If you have a charger putting out 7.5kw, Normal 32 amp 230 volt. to put out 32 amp at 180 volts input the charger will use 42 amps of draw. And when you add induced losses from long runs. The actual load at the main panel can be will be higher. I've primarily seen this on farms and large plants with a narrow and long footprint. We had to add transformer's at the load input to keep the proper control voltage for reliable function.
Frank Pierson`
Member
Frank Pierson`
Member
or you can hard wire (remove plug) your portable charger
You can not remove the Ford plug from there portable charger. It has sensors in the plug and lead needed for the unit to work and not error out. A Ford safety thing.
You can not remove the Ford plug from there portable charger. It has sensors in the plug and lead needed for the unit to work and not error out. A Ford safety thing.