Lucid Motors gets funding from Saudi PIF to build

[Pushmi-Pullyu]

And... Staying public! Pushy, the expert was right. MS and GS likely gave the boot.
https://www.tesla.com/blog/staying-public

Right about what? Serial Tesla bashers have a long history of claiming they were "right" when they made a prediction that accidentally turned out to be correct, but for the wrong reason.

But I thank you for using my preferred diminutive, "Pushy". That's a first from the serial Tesla bashing crowd.

* * * * *

Your claim about being "right" reminds me of the story about the guy at the horse races who made a long shot, 50-to-1 bet. The long shot horse balked at the starting gate, and when it finally emerged, it was a slow runner. As the race progressed, the other horses all bunched together, then got tangled and went down in a heap. The trailing long shot avoided the tangle, and managed to cross the finish line before any of the other horses had recovered. When he went up to the window to collect his winnings, the one guy with the winning bet was overheard exclaiming to his companion: "See! I told you he would win!"


That's not being right, it's just getting lucky.

* * * * *

I'm disappointed that Tesla won't be taken private; disappointed that the agenda for Tesla shorters to practice serial Tesla bashing won't disappear. And disappointed that people like you, TeslaInvestors, won't stop spreading anti-Tesla smear campaigns.

But I can't say I am surprised. Since Tesla's market cap (the total value of public stock) is so much higher than what analysts say Tesla is actually worth, it never made any sense to me that the Saudis -- or any other deep pockets investor -- would buy out a significant part of the public stock. Surely there are investments with a better risk/reward ratio. Just because someone is obscenely wealthy (as the Saudi families are) doesn't mean they're going to ignore the risk/reward ratio.

​

 

[interestedinEV]

Oscar Wilde is supposed to have said "The only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about". Elon Musk and by association, Tesla has been in the news for quite some time. It is now taking Tesla private, previously it was the cave rescue, before that is was on Model 3 production etc etc. Elon Musk got attention and got people talking about this plan. I have no idea if the idea was fairly well developed but fell through in the last moment, or if is was half baked (no due diligence) or if was something that had no planning behind it. But Elon Musk has made sure that Tesla is in the news. I would like to see what next.

 

[Pushmi-Pullyu]

Oscar Wilde is supposed to have said "The only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about".

Yes, and that's just another way to express the concept "There is no such thing as bad publicity." But of course Oscar Wilde's life proves otherwise; at the height of his literary career, due to his own hubris, his reputation was destroyed, he was imprisoned for a few years, and afterward underwent a self-imposed exile in France.

I don't see any sign that Elon is headed for a similar self-destruction of either his reputation or his career.

But Elon Musk has made sure that Tesla is in the news.

Exactly! Elon understands that a bit of controversy helps stir the pot; helps keeping people talking about himself and about Tesla. So I think that Elon making "unfiltered" remarks is, to some extent, an intentional strategy on his part. But only to a certain extent; it seems pretty clear that both his "pedo" tweet, and prematurely tweeting about his far-less-than-fully-baked plans to take Tesla private, were going too far.

If such "unfiltered" remarks cause would-be investors to think Elon may be mentally unbalanced, and therefore they hesitate to make an investment, then that's certainly unhelpful (to say the least) to either Elon or to Tesla.

Oscar Wilde is also quoted as saying "Everything in moderation, including moderation." A certain amount of controversy in Elon's public remarks is good for Tesla, but Elon needs to moderate the controversy. He has caused it to go too far.

 

[interestedinEV]

.....
If such "unfiltered" remarks cause would-be investors to think Elon may be mentally unbalanced, and therefore they hesitate to make an investment, then that's certainly unhelpful (to say the least) to either Elon or to Tesla.

You are right about that.
There is a conventional image of the CEO and then there is the maverick, social media comfortable, celebrity CEO. In a way it is important for Tesla to have a celebrity CEO, they are the new kid on the block and they are selling a concept as much as a product. Once you become a celebrity CEO, the level of scrutiny changes. One cannot expect that a celebrity will be given a free pass on everything. If you make a statement "funding secured", the expectation is that the deal has been signed, sealed and dated. Even if a part of that statement is found to be incorrect, the credibility slips.

..
I don't see any sign that Elon is headed for a similar self-destruction of either his reputation or his career.
.....

One or even a few events may not make a difference, but a continued series of such behavior may force the Board of Directors to act, even if the Board is not as independent as some would like. Will Elon Musk's larger than life image, his reputation as a brilliant businessman and inventor, given him enough protection from the forces lined up against him? Or will he go too far and create a situation that he cannot recover from? Only time will tell.

 

[Pushmi-Pullyu]

...a continued series of such behavior may force the Board of Directors to act, even if the Board is not as independent as some would like.

Do you really think that Tesla's Board came close to forcing Musk out of the CEO position, as some recent headlines at some financial news sites have claimed or at least suggested?

My impression is that this is just more anti-Tesla FUD, just another smear campaign by those trying to manipulate Tesla's stock price.

But I'm willing to be convinced I'm wrong on that point*, since I haven't looked into that situation deeply.

*That is, I'm willing so long as the person trying to convince me doesn't have an established history of counter-factual Tesla bashing.

 

[interestedinEV]

Do you really think that Tesla's Board came close to forcing Musk out of the CEO position, as some recent headlines at some financial news sites have claimed or at least suggested?

I have no knowledge on the issue if the Tesla Board came to forcing him out. In fact, I think it is unlikely they went so far, there could have been some minor slap on the wrist but I don't know. Second, I used the word may (a continued series of such behavior may force the Board of Directors to act). There has been bad publicity due to what Elon Musk has said recently (the going public statement, the fight with the cave explorer etc.). Do those actions come to the level that the board has to act? Again I have no experience or expertise in corporate governance and ethics and I leave it to the talking heads on TV to hash that out. Honestly if you ask me, I think that Tesla should just move on and not spend any more time on the past. However there may be investors who have been burned and disagree with this.

All, I am saying and am being consistent on this, is that if there are similar incidents in the future, the Board may feel that they need to take action (and by the same token may not feel the need ). One future tweet could change the entire dynamics. Again, at this stage, I think it is improbable that any such action will be taken or that Elon Musk will be asked to leave, but then I do not own a crystal ball. So I am not going to try and convince you that the Board contemplated any such action, as I have no basis to do so.

 

[Pushmi-Pullyu]

@interestedinEV

Yeah, I agree with all of that. As you say, it appears unlikely that the Board would have done more than slap Elon on the wrist. But at the same time, as you also say, they are more likely -- perhaps a lot more likely -- to give him some real trouble if he keeps embarrassing Tesla like this. The amount of slack that they have been cutting Elon... has likely gotten a lot shorter, at least temporarily.

As to what it would take for them to actually ask or pressure Elon to leave the CEO position: Just like you, I have no idea. Obviously the board is friendly to Elon. Some say too friendly; one Board member is his brother, and others are said to be close friends of his. But just how much influence Elon really has over the Board as a whole, again I have no idea.

We need to keep in mind that among the several things Musk is a genius at, he's a genius at raising funds. That's why he was brought aboard Tesla in the first place, by Tesla founders Martin Eberhard, Marc Tarpenning and Ian Wright. Tesla's board is going to be very, very reluctant to eject Elon from Tesla altogether. Even if they decide he needs replaced as CEO, they're certainly going to want him to remain as head of investor relations!

 

[interestedinEV]

@interestedinEV

Yeah, I agree with all of that. .....Even if they decide he needs replaced as CEO, they're certainly going to want him to remain as head of investor relations!

I think for the most part we are on the same page. However, if the board decides to replace him as CEO, I do not think that Elon's ego will allow him to play second fiddle. If he has to be forced out, it will be more like a Papa John or Mens Warehouse type situation, messy and contentious.

 

[Pushmi-Pullyu]

I think for the most part we are on the same page. However, if the board decides to replace him as CEO, I do not think that Elon's ego will allow him to play second fiddle. If he has to be forced out, it will be more like a Papa John or Mens Warehouse type situation, messy and contentious.

Yes, but it depends on how it's handled, or rather how he is handled.

It could be presented as a positive thing, both for Elon and for Tesla. It's pretty obvious that Elon is burning the candle at both ends, running both Tesla and SpaceX, along with more minor companies such as the Boring Co., and all the projects he's involved with. This leaves him with very little personal time, and that is reflected by... if I recall... three failed marriages.

Surely there is some part of him that would like to step back from being CEO of Tesla, to spend more time on other activities, including more time with his family and/or girlfriend(s). In fact, Elon has once or twice said that in a few years he'll probably do just that, step down to become Tesla's head of design or idea man or some such, and leave the day-to-day running of production to somebody else. Perhaps Elon's brother and/or friends could appeal to that part of Elon; the one which would be glad to have some of the weight taken off his shoulders.

Again, this is mostly just my own opinions, and I could be mis-reading the situation. It's not like I know the man personally.

​

 

[bwilson4web]

Elon shows what happens when your work is your hobby. Been there, done that, would go back in heart beat.

Once got a call from the finance department asking 'what happened to your checks' that I'd just dropped in the clothes drawer. They couldn't close out their ledger until I deposited them.

Bob Wilson

 

[interestedinEV]

Yes, but it depends on how it's handled, or rather how he is handled.

Again, this is mostly just my own opinions, and I could be mis-reading the situation. It's not like I know the man personally.

​

If push comes to shove, I guess the board could handle it diplomatically and with finesse. I know nothing of him other than what I read and I know even less of the board. It will come down to how skilled the board is.