Level 1 vs Level 2 Charging

  • Thread starter Thread starter TripleD
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TripleD

TripleD

Active Member
Well, now that I have a car being built, I can stress out about charging.
Thinking I can just stay with level 1 as I'm 78, retired and really have no need for fast charging. Rec center, library at same location. first daughter and family about 3.3 miles away, second daughter and husband 25.5 miles. Majority of trips will will be within 30-50 miles.
Have 2018 Honda CRV for snow days in our Colorado winter or longer trips.

So, my options for Level 2,
1. Unused 240v 30A dryer outlet in laundry room that goes out to garage. I can easily get a 6 foot dyer cord and put an outlet box in garage.
2. Basement was remodeled, so there is a new panel with 240 that I could have an electrician run to the garage in unfinished area of basement.

So with all the experts we have on here, would appreciate any comments on why I should consider Level 2. Oh, Rec Center is also adding a number of charging stations as is our grocery store. I'm probably wasting time but should I be spending some of your money since 30% of install and charger would be paid by you? :)
 
Your dryer outlet is probably a Nema 14-30R. Amazon had this on a lightning deal for $199 during the holidays so we snapped one up ($279 today). It has worked well with various EVs who have visited with us. It maxes out at 24A. Plug and play. Splitvolt Level 2 EV Portable Charger, NEMA 14-30 Plug, SAE J1772 199.webp
 
I just want to say how incredibly useful these conversations have been for me. Not only am I just finding out that there are rebates for these chargers (thanks, TripleD!), but also that there’s an old unused Nema 14-30 outlet (thanks, Chicago!) in my garage! Now I just need to find out if the thing actually works.
 
HappyKafka said:
I just want to say how incredibly useful these conversations have been for me. Not only am I just finding out that there are rebates for these chargers (thanks, TripleD!), but also that there’s an old unused Nema 14-30 outlet (thanks, Chicago!) in my garage! Now I just need to find out if the thing actually works.
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Are you talking manufacturer rebate or IRS? Cause you get back 30% of hardware and install costs on taxes next year. Up to $1,000! (Just making sure that is what you are referring to) Save your receipts.
 
TripleD said:
really have no need for fast charging
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Go with the Level 1 for a week, just so you can appreciate the Level 2. Then get the Level 2. You don't want to be saying, "If only I had remembered to plug in last night I wouldn't have to take that moth-eaten CR-V instead of my incredibly fun MINI Electric to see my second daughter. The grandchildren will be even more disappointed than me!" Level 2 is part of the EV experience and it will make you feel good.
 
HappyKafka said:
I just want to say how incredibly useful these conversations have been for me. Not only am I just finding out that there are rebates for these chargers (thanks, TripleD!), but also that there’s an old unused Nema 14-30 outlet (thanks, Chicago!) in my garage! Now I just need to find out if the thing actually works.
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Super easy. Take your multimeter, set it to AC voltage in the proper range, and stick the red and black leads into the two side holes of the outlet. If you see 240 or so, you're in business. See 4+45:
 
When I first got my SE, I lived off Level 1 for a couple of months until I got my Level 2 electrical work done. Since I drive 80 miles a day it didn't quite work for me, having to hit a public charge point about once every three days. Overnight Level 1 charging would easily get me back to 80% SoC, but I could never get to 100% in the 12-hour window I had.
 
It seems to say it will try to draw 16A through a NEMA5-15 socket rated 15A. With a breaker tolerance of 7%, it might do it without tripping the circuit.

However, a NEMA5-15 can only deliver a continuous 12A safely.

16.webp
 
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GvilleGuy said:
Based on the description of your situation, I would say go with level 1 until you take delivery and can evaluate how it meets your needs. It sound to me like it will be enough. Then you can add the level 2 outlet if needed.
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I totally agree. I use my car for commuting (7 miles each way) and level 1 has been totally sufficient for me. When I do drive longer distance, I will just go to a fast DC charging station to top it up to about 85-90%, which won't take long. This seems to make more financial sense in my case as I otherwise will have to spend $1000 to install a 240V outlet.

On average, level 1 charges 2-3% of batter per hour for me using the EVSE (10 amp) that comes with the car. So you can easily get 20-30% charging overnight.

I was tempted to get the Megear or Max Green level 1 EVSE on Amazon because it charges at a higher amp (and therefore faster). If you have a dedicated 20 amp outlet (or your mentioned 14-30 outlet), those EVSEs seem to be an attractive option. However, they actually haven't been properly certified and so there is a degree of safety concern when using these chargers.

But I totally agree with GvilleGuy. Try level 1 first and if that proves to be insufficient, it sounds like you already have the infrastructure to upgrade!
 
Why use a Megear with a 14-30 outlet that will only throughput 16A when the circuit can safely carry 24A? Megear's 'one-size charger (16A) fits all' outlets mentality is definitely not the best idea I heard today :OP .
 
MiniJimmy said:
I totally agree. I use my car for commuting (7 miles each way) and level 1 has been totally sufficient for me. When I do drive longer distance, I will just go to a fast DC charging station to top it up to about 85-90%, which won't take long. This seems to make more financial sense in my case as I otherwise will have to spend $1000 to install a 240V outlet.
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A Level 2 EVSE is an SE-availability game-changer IMO. I drive less than 50 miles on any given day, so the (yet untested) Level 1 charging cable could work for me, but it would limit my options. I only use DC charging stations on long trips. The only way I'd agree that $1000 is too much is if you don't plan to stay in that house for long or if you don't plan to be driving electric vehicles after your MINI Cooper SE. I apologize for brazenly assuming you are able to afford a Level 2 installation but don't believe the added convenience is worth the money.
 
insightman said:
The only way I'd agree that $1000 is too much is if you don't plan to stay in that house for long or if you don't plan to be driving electric vehicles after your MINI Cooper SE.
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I know I'll never buy another ICE vehicle, so adding Level 2 was for my near future when I have two BEVs in my garage. I viewed adding Level 2 charging to my garage to be a home improvement, like remodeling a bathroom. And I wouldn't be surprised if, within five years, having Level 2 capabilities will be a selling point for any house on the market.
 
And, a Level 2 outlet might be way less than $1000. Running new, thick wire through walls or conduit is the big expense. But if you have wire rated for 20A already run, that added cost evaporates.

If, as many garages do, your garage has a single 20A, 120V outlet in it that is on a single breaker, you are 90% of the way to Level 2. Simply replace the breaker with a double pole 240V breaker, and swap the outlet for a 6-20. Even 20A at 240V will charge an EV at around 15 MRpH, triple the 15A/120V rate. That's enough for close to 200 miles a night!

You wouldn't want to use this method on a daisy chain of outlets, as they would then all get made into 240V and also the multiple outlets would then all become points of potential resistance and/or failure.
 
Puppethead said:
I viewed adding Level 2 charging to my garage to be a home improvement, like remodeling a bathroom. And I wouldn't be surprised if, within five years, having Level 2 capabilities will be a selling point for any house on the market.
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Thank you Puppethead and others that have commented. I'm going to call an electrician this coming week and see what it will cost to get 240 out to the garage between the two parking spots. I'm thinking it will be a wise investment especially with everyone picking up 30% of the cost. Who knows, I may live long enough to have a second EV, if not, so what, I will have been able to use it.
Really appreciate everyone taking time to respond.
 
TripleD said:
Thank you Puppethead and others that have commented. I'm going to call an electrician this coming week and see what it will cost to get 240 out to the garage between the two parking spots. I'm thinking it will be a wise investment especially with everyone picking up 30% of the cost. Who knows, I may live long enough to have a second EV, if not, so what, I will have been able to use it.
Really appreciate everyone taking time to respond.
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Some of the Inside EVs Clarity forum members claim you'll get a lower quote if you tell the electrician you're setting up an electric welder. The assumption is that electricians believe EV owners are rich and will accept a more expensive 240-Volt installation quote. Just sayin'
 
insightman said:
Some of the Inside EVs Clarity forum members claim you'll get a lower quote if you tell the electrician you're setting up an electric welder. The assumption is that electricians believe EV owners are rich and will accept a more expensive 240-Volt installation quote. Just sayin'
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There is some validity to charging more for an EV outlet. A good electrician will run 6 or 8g wire to an EV outlet. Most of the time a dryer gets a 10g wire.


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Exactly, if don't already have 30A 240V service to your garage, go with 6 gauge-wired 50A service which can supply 40A continuously vs. 24A on the 10 gauge-wired dryer outlet.
 
Recoil45 said:
There is some validity to charging more for an EV outlet. A good electrician will run 6 or 8g wire to an EV outlet. Most of the time a dryer gets a 10g wire.


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But even like for like, they tend to charge more. I'll be honest even getting quotes for vinyl wrapping, you could tell there was an upcharge for EVs. We get the same thing in zip codes here. You live in xxxxx0 you pay less than xxxx1.
 
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