Just placed an order. Questions...

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Mini_K

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First post here. After comparing several EVs, considering our usage and current battery technology/infrastructure, we've decided a Mini Cooper SE suits our needs pretty well, being our second car and my daily commuter to work. Our biggest reason is mostly cost to own, as shown in the comparison sheet below. The car this mini will replace is a 2016 Golf GTI with manual transmission. My left knee is starting to complain after driving manuals for almost two decades and GTI is showing symptoms of a serious issue (crank walk). A few questions below:
1. Anything major I missed in this comparison table (I am in USA)? I know I made quite a few assumptions.
2. Can anyone confirm whether the headliner will be dark grey (like an ICE mini cooper S I test drove with the same exterior and seat colors), or light color (almost white?) as in the web configurator (as shown below). BTW, the configuration of my order is:
- Signature plus
- White Silver Metallic
- White roof and mirror caps
- 17” Roulette Spoke Two-Tone wheels
- Clothe/leatherette Black Pearl Clothe/Leatherette (can you send a picture of the sample you showed to confirm it’s the lighter grey clothe you showed me?)
- Mini Head-Up display​
3. As I couldn't get to test drive an actual SE, just a regular cooper S. Can anyone comment on the differences in the ride, handling, steering feel of the SE compared to the S?
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You'll get the lighter headliner unless you get the Iconic package or the Electric Collection package (that isn't shown on the US configurator).

The Electric Collection comes with the lighter grey Black Pearl cloth/leather seats. The regular Black Pearl seats that come with the Sig+ are a darker grey.
 
Is the "Pro S AWD + Gradient" the VW ID.4? If so, comparing the ID.4 and Model Y to an SE is wild, a hot hatch versus faux SUVs (SUV style on car platform). I think the SE will feel like a jackrabbit compared to the others. The SE handles better than the ICE Cooper S. It has quicker acceleration and much less body roll on turns. Also, the regenerative braking makes maneuvering so much more effective, because as soon as you let up on the accelerator the vehicle begins braking. So if you liked the ICE Cooper S test drive, you'll love the SE.
 
1. Does your state have any EV incentives? Many have grants available.

3. Compared to a gasoline Cooper S, the SE feels heavier and more planted. The gas model might get the edge in handling and steering feel, but like @ColdCase said above the SE powertrain feels far more responsive. The motor produces instant torque and is nearly silent, so you get to use the full power often.
The ride is firm, but not harsh. In terms of cabin noise the SE is quieter than the S, especially at lower speeds.

I have had it for about a year. It's a great car all around, but especially so in terms of ownership costs. The car averages about 4-5 miles per kWh without even trying. The battery has 28.9 kWh of usable storage, and can do up to around 150 miles with normal driving.
 
Thanks for all the comments.
Yes it (Pro S AWD + Gradient) is an ID.4 and sorry for not mentioning it.

I know it's a weird and wild comparison with SUVs and I figured out earlier this morning that comparing it to the Model 3 Standard Range plus made more sense (as shown below and I revised property tax a bit) and cost to own per my assumptions was surprisingly similar. Does anyone know how SE compares to the model 3 SR+?

We already have a hybrid compact SUV (CR-V) so it's not needed to have another one. I started with SUV hoping to use it mostly for our in-town transportation and reserve only the hybrid for road trips.

The reason for Model Y is it's only a few thousand dollars more expensive than the equivalent model 3. I didn't consider standard range plus earlier. The mini SE was added due to its lower purchase cost.

It's crazy how Teslas are able to retain their values (per this link). I used the lease residual values for the VW and the equivalent Cooper S (+10% to account for the 7500 rebate). Thanks for the feedback regarding the differences from the Cooper S. I am used to firm suspension (GTI and Civic SI, one with HFP suspension) but it's only nice when I don't have passengers. My wife did comment that the cooper S was a bit firm, more so than my GTI.

My state doesn't have EV incentives, unfortunately.

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ColdCase said:
This is a visual ordering guide someone posted awhile ago ...
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Thank you for posting that, if anyone has the 2022 or current order guide I'd love to see it. The mini website is pretty vague on options. Will be going to the dealer again soon.
 
Here in WA, we don't have a direct incentive for EVs, but they do exempt the first $20,000 of purchase price from sales tax. That's effectively $2,000 for me.

Rob
 
Mini_K, sounds like you have actually placed your order. I thought Mini announced a delay on white-silver production due to a supply problem. Did your dealer tell you what kind of delay to expect? I thought the only roof/mirror combo for a white-silver was black. I thought neither white nor body color roof/mirror were available with white-silver. Did your dealer tell you white roof/mirror was available with white-silver? Mini announced no Harman Kardon stereos (with a $550 price credit) for a while as Harman Kardon can't get all the microchips it needs to make the stereos. Did your dealer tell you if your SE would have the Harman Kardon or the standard stereo?
 
notalk said:
Mini_K, sounds like you have actually placed your order. I thought Mini announced a delay on white-silver production due to a supply problem. Did your dealer tell you what kind of delay to expect? I thought the only roof/mirror combo for a white-silver was black. I thought neither white nor body color roof/mirror were available with white-silver. Did your dealer tell you white roof/mirror was available with white-silver? Mini announced no Harman Kardon stereos (with a $550 price credit) for a while as Harman Kardon can't get all the microchips it needs to make the stereos. Did your dealer tell you if your SE would have the Harman Kardon or the standard stereo?
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply. I did place the order after confirming all the options with the sales, who insisted Mini had an internal communication that starting in October, orders for the flagships, SE and JCW, will for sure be allocated a H/K audio. He didn’t mention anything regarding my color combo either.
Unfortunately, after further consideration, despite how much fun we had with the Mini Cooper S and how long I have been dreaming owning one since my childhood, it just doesn’t make sense for us while the Model 3 standard range plus, with much usable backseats, two more doors, higher range, and faster acceleration, is for not much more (with my informed assumptions of course). I cancelled the order yesterday.
Because of this early cancellation, I didn’t receive the production number to confirm our order either.
 
Mini_K said:
Thanks for all the comments.

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Is your 55% depreciation on the Mini based on MSRP or price after incentive? Why 55% on the Mini and 30% on the Tesla? If the out the door cost of the Tesla is 45,202 and the Mini is 31,089, I see a bust in the spreadsheet with depreciation. I haven't really studied your spreadsheet, but at a glance it looks like you are depreciating sales tax. That is a sunk cost. Expense 100% of that and whatever percentage of the MSRP. If you modify depreciation, and adjust the sales tax, i think the spread will increase significantly.
 
Those are good questions.
The depreciation is calculated from MSRP alone and for Mini SE, I basically assumed 10% more depreciation than Mini's lease agreement for an equivalent Mini Cooper S (which has 55% residual, or 45% depreciation after 36 months). This 10% is simply to account for the 7500 tax credit (around 20% MSRP) so a bit arbitrary. Mini SE is not for lease so I couldn't use the lease agreement for that directly.
Tesla's depreciation is from this website. I actually wanted everything but Tesla to work so I increased its depreciation by a few points.
The depreciation for the VW ID.4 is also from a lease agreement (attached) for a 1st edition so the trim I want could be more.
The insurance estimates for ID.4, Mini SE, and Model Y were from Travelers. I made up insurance for Model 3 SR+.

For the cost to own, I used sales tax, all the extra costs (from MSRP), insurance, depreciation, and property tax.

Again this is not super accurate with a lot of assumptions but close enough for me.
 

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I did a quickie of your calculations. Instead of depreciation, take 100% of the cost to own - which would have 3 years, not 6 months of insurance, and then subtract the 70% and 45% residual of MSRP. Then the Tesla costs about 1,200 less than the Mini. Then look at Carvana where they have a SE with an asking price of less than MSRP but more than MSRP less the 7500.

On the other hand, I did a simpler napkin calculation. With a total of 10,000 in credits in CO, take the price of a base at 31,100, add 8% tax and get 33500. Less 10000, and it is 23500. subtract your 45% residual of 14k and the cost is 23500-14000= 9500 plus insurance which I'm too lazy to compute. 9500 "cost to use the car"/36=265 a month at 2.9% where i can finance the 7500 at less than the IRS charges for underpaid taxes. I cant find a new car equipped like the base for less. Increase the residual 5% to 50% and the cost goes to 215 a month.

Unfortunately, or fortunately, depending whose side you are on, Mini and BMW are separate companies, so the i3 sales don't go against Mini sales for the 200,000 wind down of the 7500 credit. If they did, there would be some arbitrage with the 7500 federal credit. But, if the senate addendum passes with the 100,000 income cap, there may be some arbitrage.

Also, the Mini has leather from cows, Tesla now has vegan leather. Are the Tesla vegan cows raised near the BMW leatherette cows? Next to the free range alcantara farm, across the road from where the nauga's sacrifice their hydes for us. That aint no bull!
 
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Mini_K said:
it just doesn’t make sense for us while the Model 3 standard range plus, with much usable backseats, two more doors, higher range, and faster acceleration, is for not much more (with my informed assumptions of course).
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They are two quite different cars with optimum trade offs for two very different use cases. I wouldn't think the money would have any influence in your decision of whats best for you, except to perhaps rationalize it. I know some have a lot of fun with numbers. Im glad the SE will be going to someone who can enjoy the go-cart handling and that better suits their purpose. Acceleration and high speed road capability are great virtues, but over the years I've found enjoying that legally and without undo risk to the drivers license takes just about all the fun out most of the time. Something like the little SE is much easier to enjoy on back roads, most of the time. But yeah, its a city car, well done and relatively inexpensive to own. If you are looking for a fun for the buck quotient, then you may want to consider what percent of your drive time will be fun and what percent is transportation appliance time.

I used to enjoy playing with spread sheets to rationalize the decision I want to make, but at my age, I'm of a mind set of throwing the spread sheets out the window and just buying what suits my purpose. I can always make more money. There isn't one vehicle that fits every purpose well, of course. A 10 year old Jeep for nasty weather and cross country towing, A 20 year old Vette for cruising, a 5 year old ¼ ton sleeper hot rod pickup for home depot and fun, the new SE for around town fun... perhaps they are not the very best in every class, but put them together and its feature rich affordable fun ... and I have a spread sheet that proves that without a doubt :)
 
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Thanks Mini_K. I did find out white roof/mirrors is available with white-silver. Haven't found out if body colored roof/mirrors is available with white-silver.

FWIW, almost all of the Tesla people I know (at least 20-30) tell me the important factor in Tesla purchase/ownership is the local Tesla "dealership". You're pretty much forced to rely on them to solve any problems you may have (no alternative dealers available). If they can't or won't help, your ownership will be a nightmare. Something you might want to consider. (And, for me the $7500 tax credit ends up being a big difference.)
 
I was a happy Model 3 owner. Really great car. The Mini is more fun and nimble, but the Model 3 is solid all around. It can handle even long road trips with relative ease (if the SR+ is anything like my LR).

Not sure how the math works out to close that $13,000 gap when you sell, other than the fact that the used market for that car has been on fire since it came out. It's not unheard of to sell it for nearly MSRP, and sometimes even more. Though that can't go on forever.
 
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