Is Elon Musk a Bully?

David Green said:
...copyright law can be nasty. There are fines that go by quantity of exposure, could be big.
Click to expand...

Very doubtful in this case. The actual amount of any penalty in a copyright case depends largely on the perceived market value. For something like this cottage industry art, that's not going to be much as a dollar amount.

More likely is the artist will get a sizable award from Tesla's legal department to allow the suit to go quietly away. The damage here to Tesla isn't actually stealing the market for this piece of art, but more the embarrassment over Elon's hostility and bullying of a small-time artist, and -- as has been pointed out -- Elon's double standard in trying to dismiss the Nikola lawsuit while at the same time refusing to acknowledge the "farting unicorn" artist's rights.

That is, unless Elon doubles down on being a jerk-of-the-first-water and refuses to settle. In which case I hope the court hits Tesla with a huge penalty and makes them pay the artist's legal fees. Probably not gonna happen, but it would true justice if it did!
​
 
Last edited:
bwilson4web said:
The court will have to weigh the evidence but I see an "educational" use in the Tesla, describing a sketch capability. The Tesla derivative is not 'a thing apart' but rather just embedded as demo software in the car. There are multiple images of farting unicorns of various styles and actions. I suspect a before and after analysis will show sales of the cup have gone up. But I'm content to let the lawyers earn their keep. Of course an over-the-air update of one of Elon's kids art would be just as effective and make the suit mute.
Click to expand...

Sorry Bob, but you don't understand how the courts apply copyright law. An "educational use" means used in a non-profit school/educational setting. Tesla's use is clearly in a commercial setting.

The central image of the "farting unicorn" is obviously copied, in detail, from the artist's work. You can't just change a few background details and claim it's an "original work"; the courts are not gonna buy such obvious B.S.

Whether or not sales of the cup depicting the artist's work are increased (or decreased) has no bearing on whether or not copyright was violated. It does bear on whether or not the artist's market was damaged; arguably it was enhanced, but again that is a separate issue.

If the court follows standard procedure, then the compensatory damages will be minimal or nil. It's hard to see a case for Tesla damaging the market for the artist's work. But the statutory violation of copyright is pretty clear-cut here. The fine for statutory violation can be low or high, and in this case, with a large company apparently trying to bully a cottage industry artist, the judge may impose a relatively high penalty. (Not "relatively high" in terms of billionaire Elon Musk's net worth, but perhaps a few thousand or a few tens of thousands of dollars. That is, relatively high in terms of a cottage industry's income from a line of artwork.) I would hope the judge would also require Tesla to pay the artist's legal fees, but unfortunately that doesn't often happen in a copyright violation suit.

* * * * *

Copyright is one of those subjects that most educated people think they know a lot about, but most of what they know is probably wrong. Those interested in learning the facts about how the courts treat copyright are advised to start here:

"10 Big Myths about copyright explained"

Looks like Elon needs to read that, too. Especially #9!
 
Last edited:
bwilson4web said:
I can agree with this:

  • $3.1 B - Donald Trump net worth
  • $21.1 B - Elon Musk net worth
Bob Wilson
Click to expand...

Not really. Trump has always claimed his net worth is far more than it actually is. As I recall, informed people who have looked into his finances estimate his net worth in the range of 0.75-1.5 billion. He may not even be a billionaire at all, despite his puffed-up claims.

See: "Is Donald Trump Not Really a Billionaire?"
​
 
Pushmi-Pullyu said:
The fine for statutory violation can be low or high, and in this case, with a large company apparently trying to bully a cottage industry artist, the judge may impose a relatively high penalty. (Not "relatively high" in terms of billionaire Elon Musk's net worth, but perhaps a few thousand or a few tens of thousands of dollars. That is, relatively high in terms of a cottage industry's income from a line of artwork.)
Click to expand...

An important point is the "willfulness" of the copying. While the statutory penalty for this is quoted here (https://www.kent.edu/is/civil-and-criminal-penalties-violation-federal-copyright-laws) as "...not less than $700 and not more than $30,000...", willful infringement raises that to $150,000. If Elon has run afoul of that, well, it won't break him but he'll look foolish.
 
Regardless of our individual opinions, the copyright claims are now 'land shark' chum. Let the feeding frenzy begin.

Bob Wilson
 
Pushmi-Pullyu said:
Sorry Bob, but you don't understand how the courts apply copyright law. An "educational use" means used in a non-profit school/educational setting. Tesla's use is clearly in a commercial setting.

The central image of the "farting unicorn" is obviously copied, in detail, from the artist's work. You can't just change a few background details and claim it's an "original work"; the courts are not gonna buy such obvious B.S.

Whether or not sales of the cup depicting the artist's work are increased (or decreased) has no bearing on whether or not copyright was violated. It does bear on whether or not the artist's market was damaged; arguably it was enhanced, but again that is a separate issue.

If the court follows standard procedure, then the compensatory damages will be minimal or nil. It's hard to see a case for Tesla damaging the market for the artist's work. But the statutory violation of copyright is pretty clear-cut here. The fine for statutory violation can be low or high, and in this case, with a large company apparently trying to bully a cottage industry artist, the judge may impose a relatively high penalty. (Not "relatively high" in terms of billionaire Elon Musk's net worth, but perhaps a few thousand or a few tens of thousands of dollars. That is, relatively high in terms of a cottage industry's income from a line of artwork.) I would hope the judge would also require Tesla to pay the artist's legal fees, but unfortunately that doesn't often happen in a copyright violation suit.

* * * * *

Copyright is one of those subjects that most educated people think they know a lot about, but most of what they know is probably wrong. Those interested in learning the facts about how the courts treat copyright are advised to start here:

"10 Big Myths about copyright explained"

Looks like Elon needs to read that, too. Especially #9!
Click to expand...

Wow, we actually agree on something??? Thats a miracle! My whole point of this post was not about the law or possible outcomes, but the way Elon reacted to the artist, and their family members. This could have been quickly and quietly rectified by treating the people with respect, and offering them something in compensation, or at least acknowledgement. Elon treated these people terribly, for anybody who is a fan of Elon this has to be a bit embarrassing, and now everyone know Tesla stole material from this artist.
 
David Green said:
Wow, we actually agree on something??? Thats a miracle!
Click to expand...

Yes, it's truly amazing how reasonable you can be on subjects where your Reality Distorting Tesla Hater Goggles don't interfere with your perception of reality. :rolleyes:

Meanwhile, I see you're still blasting away posting trollish serial Tesla Hater Cultist posts to any and every Tesla related article on the InsideEVs news site. :(
​
 
Source: https://insideevs.com/musk-tweets-tesla-production-hits-7000-in-7-days-model-3-reaches-5000/

Tesla CEO Elon Musk just took to Twitter moments ago to let the world know that the automaker had achieved two production records.
  • 7,000 in 7 days
  • 5,000 Model 3 in a week
In my +50 years working, now retired, I found the most direct and insistent managers are the ones I alway preferred to work with. They did not suffer fools and liars. Better still, they did not put up with silly distractions which made them my kinda people even if others were not their fans.

Understand I spent four years in the Marine Corps. So I'm used to dealing with people who say, "A grain of observation out weights a pound of bovine fecal matter any day!"

I have faith and trust that at trial the 'artist' will get the justice he deserves. But in like fashion, he has no ability to make '7,000 in 7 days.'

Bob Wilson
 
bwilson4web said:
Source: https://insideevs.com/musk-tweets-tesla-production-hits-7000-in-7-days-model-3-reaches-5000/

Tesla CEO Elon Musk just took to Twitter moments ago to let the world know that the automaker had achieved two production records.
  • 7,000 in 7 days
  • 5,000 Model 3 in a week
In my +50 years working, now retired, I found the most direct and insistent managers are the ones I alway preferred to work with. They did not suffer fools and liars. Better still, they did not put up with silly distractions which made them my kinda people even if others were not their fans.

Understand I spent four years in the Marine Corps. So I'm used to dealing with people who say, "A grain of observation out weights a pound of bovine fecal matter any day!"

I have faith and trust that at trial the 'artist' will get the justice he deserves. But in like fashion, he has no ability to make '7,000 in 7 days.'

Bob Wilson
Click to expand...

Satya Nadella= good strong leader, direct, smart
Mary Barra = good strong leader, direct, smart, charismatic Lets see how long it takes her to hit 7K a week on the 2019 All NEW Silverado? I am guessing 2 months (not 10 years like its taken Tesla), and the factory will not look like a war zone/tent city, did you see the latest Tesla drone video this morning? WOW, Fremont is a disaster! What a dumpster fire place to work... Oh shoot they did literally have a dumpster fire a couple weeks ago.

Elon Musk= Bombastic, over stated, and a bully to little people. Wow, 7000? Lets see how long it takes the girl to hit that mark? Not long, and Oh ya, she makes money too...
 
David Green said:
Elon Musk= Bombastic, over stated, and a bully to little people.
Click to expand...

How terrible that Elon Musk is so rich, famous, and admired, and has such creativity and such vision, despite his occasional displays of arrogance. You should be more rich, famous, and admired than he is... despite obviously not having Elon's imagination, his creative ability, his dedication, his business acumen, or his ability to persuade people!

:rolleyes:
 
Last edited:
bwilson4web said:
Source: https://insideevs.com/musk-tweets-tesla-production-hits-7000-in-7-days-model-3-reaches-5000/

Tesla CEO Elon Musk just took to Twitter moments ago to let the world know that the automaker had achieved two production records.
  • 7,000 in 7 days
  • 5,000 Model 3 in a week
In my +50 years working, now retired, I found the most direct and insistent managers are the ones I alway preferred to work with. They did not suffer fools and liars. Better still, they did not put up with silly distractions which made them my kinda people even if others were not their fans.

Understand I spent four years in the Marine Corps. So I'm used to dealing with people who say, "A grain of observation out weights a pound of bovine fecal matter any day!"

I have faith and trust that at trial the 'artist' will get the justice he deserves. But in like fashion, he has no ability to make '7,000 in 7 days.'

Bob Wilson
Click to expand...
Nice circus show put up by Elon! Had he just operated the regular lines more regularly, he would have produced more cars without exhausting his employees for one whole week and cutting corners.
But when the whole idea is to distract people with circus barking, the circus in a tent it is! :)
 
TeslaInvestors said:
Nice circus show put up by Elon! Had he just operated the regular lines more regularly, he would have produced more cars without exhausting his employees for one whole week and cutting corners.
But when the whole idea is to distract people with circus barking, the circus in a tent it is! :)
Click to expand...

It just keeps going round and round...
 
Here is one important casualty of the circus in a tent act: customer Dan Edmunds, an important fanboy. He has been supportive of Tesla for many years. Now Elon lost him. Couldn't get his "tent is better than really assembly" BS past these people. Edmunds is having lots of issues already with their "easy to build" Model 3.
https://twitter.com/Edmunds_Test/status/1015359377534906369

Really interesting thoughts here from Dan Edmunds, pointing out th ebait and switch of $35k car that never existed.
Funny to see the idiots blaming him for being paid by short sellers :) The Tesla cult club is getting really desperate.
dan.webp
 
Last edited:
Doubt Donald even has 100 million- if his tax return were to be released he'd be toast but he is a perfect symbol for a system running on a bankrupt fraud known as petrol.

bwilson4web said:
I can agree with this:

  • $3.1 B - Donald Trump net worth
  • $21.1 B - Elon Musk net worth
Bob Wilson
Click to expand...

The posters main point is annoying. Its a bit like the Martin Trip stuff about Tesla doing huge harm to humanity. What kind of bully would Trump be? On the level of a Koch brother? What is he doing exactly? Is he undermining the petrol basis of white supremacy?
 
TeslaInvestors said:
Here is one important casualty of the circus in a tent act: customer Dan Edmunds, an important fanboy. He has been supportive of Tesla for many years. Now Elon lost him. Couldn't get his "tent is better than really assembly" BS past these people. Edmunds is having lots of issues already with their "easy to build" Model 3.
https://twitter.com/Edmunds_Test/status/1015359377534906369

Really interesting thoughts here from Dan Edmunds, pointing out th ebait and switch of $35k car that never existed.
Funny to see the idiots blaming him for being paid by short sellers :) The Tesla cult club is getting really desperate.
View attachment 1502
Click to expand...

I am really surprised to see Dan Edmunds come out with such a strong statement, but I have been seeing more and more folks on the I-Pace forums getting to drive I-Pace for the first time in the Netherlands, and UK, dropping their Model 3 reservation and ordering I-Pace. Test drive reviews from real customers have been coming back great so far. Norway is getting their first test drive cars on Tuesday upcoming, and also a few heading to Germany. E-tron has also been taking a bite of Tesla customers already, seeing people on their forum talking about canceling... This real competition thing is going to tough for Tesla to overcome, especially with their questionable interior and UI design.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top