I won't be charging at Circle K

bwilson4web

bwilson4web

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About 2/3ds of all EVs are Tesla yet Circle-K has ONLY the CCS-1 plug:
  • Touch charging port cover - Tesla has touch-less charging port opening
  • Large, heavy CCS-1 plug - the Tesla plug is about 1/3d the size and weight
  • $0.44/kWh - is more than $0.36/kWh charged the past 31 days at SuperChargers
  • Apple Pay cell phone - Tesla requires no cell phone or cell phone reader
  • "... those who don't drive Teslas ..."
EVgo builds fast DC chargers with a working, Tesla plug. I don't have to spend hundreds of dollars upgrading my 2019 Tesla Model 3 to use an EVgo CCS-1 plug and pay their higher electric rates.

Thanks for the warning.

BTW, when are the CCS-1 advocates going to ever criticize those who do not have a Tesla plug on their fast DC chargers? Are all but EVgo incompetent or choose to ignore 2/3ds of all EV owners?

Bob Wilson
 
bwilson4web said:
About 2/3ds of all EVs are Tesla yet Circle-K has ONLY the CCS-1 plug
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Tesla has its own charging network, which serves Tesla owners quite well. Those of us with CCS-1 EVs are an underserved demographic, so it makes sense for Circle K to cater that group. Considering the quality of the Tesla charging experience is it realistic to expect a large number of Tesla drivers to seek out non-Tesla charging options?
 
Puppethead said:
Tesla has its own charging network, which serves Tesla owners quite well. Those of us with CCS-1 EVs are an underserved demographic, so it makes sense for Circle K to cater that group. Considering the quality of the Tesla charging experience is it realistic to expect a large number of Tesla drivers to seek out non-Tesla charging options?
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With the demand charges being what they are, it would seem to make sense to include a Tesla connector on new installs to make sure the stations are used to their fullest. Plus, Circle K picks up a few more customers buying food.

I suspect many of these new installations are funded in part with government grants or other manufacture money, and as such, there may be some restrictions we don't know about.
 
bwilson4web said:
BTW, when are the CCS-1 advocates going to ever criticize those who do not have a Tesla plug on their fast DC chargers?
Click to expand...
Maybe those quiet EV drivers instead spend their time wishing for CCS charging stations that would be as reliable as the more numerous Tesla charging stations.
 
If a government grant, it should require plugs in proportion to EV sales by type of plug. After all, Tesla owners pay taxes too.

The double standard by car reviewers about CCS-1 over Tesla connectors, is so disgusting.

Bob Wilson
 
bwilson4web said:
If a government grant, it should require plugs in proportion to EV sales by type of plug. After all, Tesla owners pay taxes too.

The double standard by car reviewers about CCS-1 over Tesla connectors, is so disgusting.

Bob Wilson
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I wish Elon had not waited 10 years before declaring Tesla's propietary connector the “North American Charging Standard.” Charging might have been much more convenient in the long run.
 
Puppethead said:
Tesla has its own charging network, which serves Tesla owners quite well. Those of us with CCS-1 EVs are an underserved demographic, so it makes sense for Circle K to cater that group. Considering the quality of the Tesla charging experience is it realistic to expect a large number of Tesla drivers to seek out non-Tesla charging options?
Click to expand...

Also, Tesla's EV market share is dropping like a rock and will continue to do so. Companies installing chargers need to think of the market in future years, not just today.
 
teslarati97 said:
For those interested, you can read the fine print.
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I was foundering trying to read Tesla's legalese, but this summary at the bottom seems easy to interpret:

What this pledge means is that as long as someone uses our patents for electric vehicles and doesn’t do bad things, such as knocking off our products or using our patents and then suing us for intellectual property infringement, they should have no fear of Tesla asserting its patents against them.

Perhaps companies felt safer following the SAE's CCS standard rather than risk getting embroiled later in possible patent litigation if Tesla felt their free patent-use conditions were being violated.
 
Bruce M. said:
Also, Tesla's EV market share is dropping like a rock and will continue to do so. Companies installing chargers need to think of the market in future years, not just today.
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I know you dislike Elon, but I think Tesla is going to have a record quarter.

Anyhow, you have to pay the demand charges and maintenance costs today and not in the future. As such, it doesn't make any sense to ignore as many customers as Tesla brings to the table.
 
insightman said:
I was foundering trying to read Tesla's legalese, but this summary at the bottom seems easy to interpret:

What this pledge means is that as long as someone uses our patents for electric vehicles and doesn’t do bad things, such as knocking off our products or using our patents and then suing us for intellectual property infringement, they should have no fear of Tesla asserting its patents against them.

Perhaps companies felt safer following the SAE's CCS standard rather than risk getting embroiled later in possible patent litigation if Tesla felt their free patent-use conditions were being violated.
Click to expand...
It's pretty much lopsided in Tesla's favor, and the scope extends to ANY Tesla patents current and going forward.
 
marshall said:
As such, it doesn't make any sense to ignore as many customers as Tesla brings to the table.
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That is a valid point, but there's also the cost of coming up with a solution to provide dual connectors. Perhaps Circle K has made the calculus that what their convenience stores offer are compelling enough that if Tesla owners really want to charge at their locations they'll get their own CCS adapter. Or maybe since the video is showing a testing site Circle K just hasn't rolled out a Tesla solution yet.
 
insightman said:
. . .
Perhaps companies felt safer following the SAE's CCS standard rather than risk getting embroiled later in possible patent litigation if Tesla felt their free patent-use conditions were being violated.
Click to expand...
What Tesla patent lawsuits?

The first one Mr. Google returned: https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/05/business/nikola-drops-suit-tesla/index.html

New York CNN Business
—
Upstart electric truck maker Nikola is dropping its $2 billion patent infringement lawsuit against Tesla in which it charged that its larger, more established rival stole parts of Nikola’s design for a heavy duty truck.

The suit was originally filed in 2018, when Tesla was still losing money, running short on cash and its stock was struggling. At the time, Nikola was a hot start-up with promises of hydrogen-powered semi-trucks and pickups and claims of a massive order book.

Since then Tesla has gone from perennially losing money to profits, and now has a soaring market value worth more than $1 trillion. It’s more valuable than the world’s 12 largest automakers.
. . .​

Bad, bad, Tesla letting someone else sue them for patent infringement. Is that what you mean?

Bob Wilson
 
The excuses for continued CCS-1 instead of Tesla connectors:
  • Heavier weight of plug and socket
    • small stature people struggle
    • EVs are heavier
  • More expensive to manufacture
    • increases EV vehicles costs
    • increases EV charging station costs
  • Unreliable payment systems
    • requires an RFID card for each network
    • requires a working credit card reader
    • requires a cell phone App
    • must have a support service call center
The best answer is to adjust the cost of non-Tesla users to:
  1. Cover the costs Tesla owners have already paid
  2. Encourage non-Tesla owners to experience the joys of CCS-1 networks.
Bob Wilson
 
Puppethead said:
That is a valid point, but there's also the cost of coming up with a solution to provide dual connectors. Perhaps Circle K has made the calculus that what their convenience stores offer are compelling enough that if Tesla owners really want to charge at their locations they'll get their own CCS adapter. Or maybe since the video is showing a testing site Circle K just hasn't rolled out a Tesla solution yet.
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I would think the demand charges would be a bigger concern then the cost of adding a Tesla connector.

Circle K makes their money selling food and beverages. I makes no sense to give Tesla owners the middle finger. If I was Circle K, I wouldn't allow these charging stations on my property unless they included a Tesla connector.
 
I would like to see InsideEVs to ping Circle K and find out what they can about the lack of Tesla connectors.
 
bwilson4web said:
Bad, bad, Tesla letting someone else sue them for patent infringement. Is that what you mean?
Click to expand...

Tesla wrote: "...as long as someone uses our patents for electric vehicles and doesn’t do bad things..."

What I meant was that companies using patented Tesla technology would have to always worry about Tesla's possibly fluid definition of "bad things." It clearly didn't make sense to Tesla to release their connector technology to the public domain, but that's the only way other manufacturers would have felt safe adopting that technology.
 
Is this the replay of the old (very old) Beta vs VHS battle (Sony vs everyone else) happening? Sorry if the young-uns here don't get this...
 
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