How/when Honda Clarity software updates happen / how to avoid them?

[Solf]

Hi,

I am trying to understand how/when do Honda Clarity software updates actually work with the goal of avoiding them (I'll get into 'why' later).

My local dealership appears to be completely clueless on the subject and the only thing I can say for 'certain' is that there were some updates installed on my car when I brought it in for camera calibration (after a windshield replacement).

According to the dealership they 'didn't do anything' (in terms of updating/changing my Clarity's software/settings) and the only suggestion they had was to talk to Honda Canada customer support -- which turned out to be a giant waste of time as they say that for any technical issues I have to go to the dealerships.


I did some googling and reading and found e.g. this: https://www.insideevsforum.com/community/index.php?threads/how-do-i-know-which-updates-i-need.3650/

They say "You go to your service center, they plug it in, and it gets updated based on VIN."

Does anyone know if this is true? Is it something that happens automatically without any interaction from the dealership/technician doing the work on the car?

Any idea what 'plug it in' means in this context? Do they use ODB-II port or something else? Can I e.g. plug-up OBD-II port with a 'DO NOT REMOVE' sticker in order to make sure my Clarity's software will not be updated 'by accident' without anyone's knowledge?

Or is it some other port that they use for this purpose?


I am also trying to figure out which updates have already been installed on my car -- without risking them installing any more updates without my knowledge. I tried to ask my dealership, but this is also an area where they are completely clueless.

I found examples like this on these forums: https://www.insideevsforum.com/comm...-for-2018-clarity-phev.2183/page-6#post-35120

I also read somewhere that they (dealerships) can 'scan' something to pull up the list of available updates. Is this true? Can someone explain how this is done so I can 'teach' my dealership how to do it?


Now to answer the 'why' part in case anyone cares The previous updates to my Clarity that appear to have been installed (I do not have any proof that they were, but I do not have any other explanation as to what else might be the cause) have made my car 'worse' compared to what it was when I bought it.

LKAS used to be available starting at 60 kph and now it refuses to engage below 70 kph. Also there were changes (for the worse, in my opinion) in how cruise control controls work. I posted about this previously here: https://www.insideevsforum.com/comm...um-lkas-speed-dispute-with-honda-canada.7224/

Also -- and this is something I'm much less certain of -- it feels like the updates (or whatever) were fiddling with engine settings. There was a point in time (after one of my visits to the dealership) when driving under gas engine was actively unpleasant -- it was tending to use revs that caused significant noise and vibration in the car; luckily after a subsequent visit (for 'diagnostics' which also was not 'supposed' to change anything) that seem to have cleared up -- it seems to work much smoother now.


All in all, I'm very unhappy with the potential for my car behavior to be changes without my -- and my dealership's -- knowledge and potentially making things worse than before -- thus I'm looking for any information that might help me avoid those software updates in the future.


Any help will be greatly appreciated, thanks!

 

[petteyg359]

LKAS never started at 60 kph. 45 mph (70ish kph) is the lowest it has ever started. It will stay on slightly below that, but once it disengages you have to be 45mph again to restart.

 

[Solf]

LKAS never started at 60 kph. 45 mph (70ish kph) is the lowest it has ever started. It will stay on slightly below that, but once it disengages you have to be 45mph again to restart.

I don't really want to get into this argument here, but mine did start at 60 kph when I bought the car in May 2019 in Canada (New Brunswick). I am as certain of this as I can be. For example, because there's no 70 kph roads in our city and I was testing LKAS before the purchase on 60 kph roads.

 

[Sandroad]

I have no idea about answers to your specific question, but generally speaking updating a Clarity is no different than updating an Accord, or a Ridgeline, or etc. I'm sure the dealer service department knows how to do that and when it happens and how to look up available updates. They may not want to, or have the time to, or the particular person you ask may not know, but someone at the dealership should be able to help you out at some point. If you develop a good relationship with the service department, they will hopefully be responsive. There is, however, a very real possibility that individual dealers have no control over updates; if Honda prepares an update, all relevant vehicle may have to get it installed for operational or liability reasons when the vehicle is in for service. In your situation, where you have unusual concerns and questions that take time to answer, it will really help to put some time and money into being a nice customer. Offer to pay them for their time to look things up and to explain the technical details of updates. One suggestion (that I've never tried myself) might be to make an appointment with the service manager and offer to pay the shop time rate for some answers. That could work better than trying to get answers to perhaps time-consuming questions at the end or beginning of a routine oil change.

 

[Solf]

One suggestion (that I've never tried myself) might be to make an appointment with the service manager and offer to pay the shop time rate for some answers.

Thanks for the suggestions. I did talk to service manager at length multiple times (although I did not pay them for it). They are, unfortunately, the part of the 'clueless' problem. As best I can tell, they are on the level and want to be helpful, but they honestly have no slightest idea about how these updates may happen.

 

[TomL]

I have no idea about answers to your specific question, but generally speaking updating a Clarity is no different than updating an Accord, or a Ridgeline, or etc. I'm sure the dealer service department knows how to do that and when it happens and how to look up available updates. They may not want to, or have the time to, or the particular person you ask may not know, but someone at the dealership should be able to help you out at some point. If you develop a good relationship with the service department, they will hopefully be responsive. There is, however, a very real possibility that individual dealers have no control over updates; if Honda prepares an update, all relevant vehicle may have to get it installed for operational or liability reasons when the vehicle is in for service. In your situation, where you have unusual concerns and questions that take time to answer, it will really help to put some time and money into being a nice customer. Offer to pay them for their time to look things up and to explain the technical details of updates. One suggestion (that I've never tried myself) might be to make an appointment with the service manager and offer to pay the shop time rate for some answers. That could work better than trying to get answers to perhaps time-consuming questions at the end or beginning of a routine oil change.

Huh. Talk to the service guys at my local Honda Dealer in Eau Claire, WI, you say. About my Clarity? Now that's funny. This suggestion comes at a time when we can use some amusement.

 

[Kerbe]

It's been my understanding that Honda releases a Service Bulletin prior to issuing an update or recall of any sort. Most of those I've seen seem to date from the earliest release of the vehicle and were directly related to actual problems encountered by drivers - for example, the tendency to interact poorly with certain ChargePoint EVSE units. As the 2018, 2019 and 2020 models seem to be functionally and structurally identical, have there actually BEEN any software updates within the last, say, six months? Asking for a friend...

 

[Solf]

Apologies for bumping my own question -- but I have to bring the car in for maintenance soon and I'd love to know more about how to avoid them installing any updates on my car without my consent.

 

[DucRider]

Apologies for bumping my own question -- but I have to bring the car in for maintenance soon and I'd love to know more about how to avoid them installing any updates on my car without my consent.

Tell them not to is about all you can do. Most owners have had to specifically request them (and sometimes push hard) to get their dealers to do the install, so not likely to be a problem

 

[Solf]

Tell them not to is about all you can do. Most owners have had to specifically request them (and sometimes push hard) to get their dealers to do the install, so not likely to be a problem

It's a problem because unfortunately neither them -- nor I -- know when and how updates happen.

By the way of a random theory -- there's maintenance alert on the car's computer right now; to reset the alert, they'll connect car to whatever 'thing' that they use -- which will automatically update car's software.

 

[DucRider]

It's not automatic, they have to take action to install any updates. If they are telling you they don't know how to do this, it's time to find another dealer as this is the method used on all models, not just he Clarity.
Either:
1) They are incompetent and you should not allow them to work on your car
or
2) They are lying to you and you should not trust them to work on your car

 

[Nemesis]

Just some food for thought. For my 2018, when it was known the Clarity was is need to updates software and other things via the service bulletins, I thought yes I want my car to have the latest and greatest software available for the car. Then when the updates were done, I was extremely unhappy because it made my car perform differently and it felt worse as I begin to get the angry bees and had not experienced that before the updates. Then after putting 2,000 +/- miles on the car, it began to behave like it did before the updates and now with many more miles, it drives like it did before the updates. So long story to say, I was for the updates, the immediately against them and now for the updates again. Your mileage may be different but I feel better my car has the same software as a 2020 model (I believe).

 

[Solf]

It's not automatic, they have to take action to install any updates. If they are telling you they don't know how to do this, it's time to find another dealer as this is the method used on all models, not just he Clarity.

If you know how about updates are done -- can you please elaborate?

If you don't -- how can you be sure it's the same and not automatic?

As for changing the dealership -- the next closest one is literally 100km away and there's zero guarantee that they are any different from my current one.

Besides if I can figure out / prove that updates were, actually, installed on my car without my consent (as I believe they were), I can then take further actions in trying to make them to 'fix' my car the way it was before. Right now it's all stuck in the weird limbo where they say "they didn't do anything" and Honda Canada refuses to discuss any technical questions with me -- they insist I have to go to dealers for that.

I will, probably, eventually go to another dealer if I cannot find other options -- but it's all much more complicated right now due to COVID-19 lockdown.

 

[Nemesis]

Just another fyi, I was told by two dealerships that once the service bulletins are applied to your car, those updates CAN NOT be reversed. I am not saying this is true, just what I was told because I tried several times at two dealerships to remove the updates from my car because I was very upset with how my car performed after the service bulletins were installed. However my car drives like it once did before the updates after putting several thousand miles on it.

 

[Solf]

Just another fyi, I was told by two dealerships that once the service bulletins are applied to your car, those updates CAN NOT be reversed. I am not saying this is true, just what I was told because I tried several times at two dealerships to remove the updates from my car because I was very upset with how my car performed after the service bulletins were installed. However my car drives like it once did before the updates after putting several thousand miles on it.

Yeah, I kinda expect that they won't be able to remove them. However if so, I might be able to demand some kind of compensation from them or something, since it was done without my consent.

 

[JohnT]

Yeah, I kinda expect that they won't be able to remove them. However if so, I might be able to demand some kind of compensation from them or something, since it was done without my consent.

Hi
As a Canadian Clarity 2018 owner - Rally Honda dealer - updates were ONLY done AT the dealership BY request - or by recall notice. Very surprised if they did them without telling you.. (anything is possible)...

Go to https://www.honda.ca/recalls and put in your VIN nr and it will TELL you what updates have been done and which are outstanding...

I didn't care for the result of the update for a month or so - but then it all settled down.
John
PS in my case these have been done:

• Incorrect Driving Range Displayed
  10/2018

• Climate Control Unit Incorrect Software
  06/2019

• Incorrect Engine Diagnostic Codes
  06/2019

 

[Solf]

As a Canadian Clarity 2018 owner - Rally Honda dealer - updates were ONLY done AT the dealership BY request - or by recall notice. Very surprised if they did them without telling you.. (anything is possible)...

Go to https://www.honda.ca/recalls and put in your VIN nr and it will TELL you what updates have been done and which are outstanding...

Err, "There is no recall or product update found for this vehicle. Please note this website only provides information on recalls/product updates issued after January 1, 2000."

But I bought mine in 2019 (2019 model), so maybe that's the reason...

Maybe 'recalls' are not one and the same as 'service bulletins' as discussed here and elsewhere...

 

[Nemesis]

Or your 2019 was all updated at the factory and nothing is needed. This was definitely a need for the 2018 model year.

 

[JohnT]

Err, "There is no recall or product update found for this vehicle. Please note this website only provides information on recalls/product updates issued after January 1, 2000."

But I bought mine in 2019 (2019 model), so maybe that's the reason...

Maybe 'recalls' are not one and the same as 'service bulletins' as discussed here and elsewhere...

My 'guess' is that your car (2019) has the updates/recalls/service bulletins already done; and there has been nothing on any other updates since then mentioned on this forum... so - I'd just move on with life and ignore all this.. certainly dealers do not know very much about the Clarity; and Honda Canada isn't any better.. I still have my phone's Hondalink reporting in 'miles' and after escalating etc was told it is the fault of my smartphone! - sure.....

 

[Solf]

My 'guess' is that your car (2019) has the updates/recalls/service bulletins already done; and there has been nothing on any other updates since then mentioned on this forum...

That's a possibility; on the other hand -- other than the software update -- what could have possibly have been done to my car to make e.g. cruise control buttons literally behave differently as compared to what there was before? *And* changing minimum LKAS speed to 70 kph instead of 60 kph.

Btw, I tested, lane tracking is 'operational' after ~60 kph -- it will alert me if I'm about to leave the lane, it just won't let me toggle active lane keeping under 70kph (unlike before).