Full Self-Driving Capability question
- Thread starter briloop
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Recent experience suggests it goes with the owner who purchased it. However, my Model 3 is planned to get HW 3.0 to support the full self-driving I bought.
I don’t know.
Bob Wilson
I would suspect that if the software doesn't go with the car, Tesla will be facing some regulation going forward.
However, if you are planning to buy a used Tesla, you would be very smart to make sure the documentation showing the purchase of the software and that it matches the VIN of the car.
https://thenextweb.com/cars/2020/02...ptitiously-taken-now-given-back-alec-model-s/
I wouldn't be surprised if Tesla starts charging for software updates at some point, especially for used car buyers.
However, if you are planning to buy a used Tesla, you would be very smart to make sure the documentation showing the purchase of the software and that it matches the VIN of the car.
https://thenextweb.com/cars/2020/02...ptitiously-taken-now-given-back-alec-model-s/
I wouldn't be surprised if Tesla starts charging for software updates at some point, especially for used car buyers.
interestedinEV
Well-Known Member
OK there is a lot of confusion on this topic. First question: Is it a license or does it become a part of the car like the hardware? If it is licensed with what or with whom does the license go with?
For example, I have a car with FSD. When I sell the car, can I take the FSD and put it on my new Tesla and let the new owner buy his own FSD license? Or does it stay with the car, if once on the car it is always with the car? Or does it stay with the car as long as the original buyer is the owner? (If I sell my computer with say MS Word on it, I can either take the Word license and put it on my new computer or the new owner has the license and I have to buy a new one, both cannot use it. How does Tesla FSD operate: is it a add on and not a part of the car in that sense)
Second would be upgrades. Even if you have FSD on car you bought used, are you eligible for all the upgrades if you were not the original buyer of the FSD?
Unfortunately Tesla, seems to indicate that it is a part of the car (https://forums.tesla.com/forum/forums/fsd-transferable) but not anything beyond that. My guess is when you upgrade the software in a Tesla, it is going to be difficult to take the software out. What Tesla has (my guess) is a kill switch, that they can deactivate the usage of that function in that car. So they may insist it stays on the car, rather then with the buyer.
It appears from the video that Tesla is cracking down on people who cannot prove they bought FSD. If you buy a used Tesla, make sure they have paid for the FSD and get you the proof. If you buy from a dealer, you may be out of luck if Tesla comes after you. One reason to buy directly from Tesla.
This is still a grey area and only Tesla can tell you what the situation is.
For example, I have a car with FSD. When I sell the car, can I take the FSD and put it on my new Tesla and let the new owner buy his own FSD license? Or does it stay with the car, if once on the car it is always with the car? Or does it stay with the car as long as the original buyer is the owner? (If I sell my computer with say MS Word on it, I can either take the Word license and put it on my new computer or the new owner has the license and I have to buy a new one, both cannot use it. How does Tesla FSD operate: is it a add on and not a part of the car in that sense)
Second would be upgrades. Even if you have FSD on car you bought used, are you eligible for all the upgrades if you were not the original buyer of the FSD?
Unfortunately Tesla, seems to indicate that it is a part of the car (https://forums.tesla.com/forum/forums/fsd-transferable) but not anything beyond that. My guess is when you upgrade the software in a Tesla, it is going to be difficult to take the software out. What Tesla has (my guess) is a kill switch, that they can deactivate the usage of that function in that car. So they may insist it stays on the car, rather then with the buyer.
It appears from the video that Tesla is cracking down on people who cannot prove they bought FSD. If you buy a used Tesla, make sure they have paid for the FSD and get you the proof. If you buy from a dealer, you may be out of luck if Tesla comes after you. One reason to buy directly from Tesla.
This is still a grey area and only Tesla can tell you what the situation is.
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hobbit
Well-Known Member
This kind of deceptive and stonewalling practice is one reason I ran
in the other direction. The idea of largely unsolicited OTA updates
makes my skin crawl, especially if it intends to remove perfectly good
functionality. Someone want to try to explain to me how this can be
considered a good thing?
I just stumbled across a perfect example which is what prompted me
to come over here and poop on your lawn. This article
. https://insideevs.com/news/399322/tesla-mode-3-heated-rear-seats-upgrade/
just made me angry. Pay extra money to "enable" something that an owner already
bought and owns?! Why isn't every M3 owner with frequent rear-seat passengers
simply wiring in a switch? What's even more astounding is how instead, the kool-aid
crowd just chants the mantra and ponies up. It would be one thing if lower trims
simply didn't have seats with the heating elements, but to include the same
hardware across the line and then callously deny its use to a *vehicle owner*
should be decried as outright fraud.
_H*
in the other direction. The idea of largely unsolicited OTA updates
makes my skin crawl, especially if it intends to remove perfectly good
functionality. Someone want to try to explain to me how this can be
considered a good thing?
I just stumbled across a perfect example which is what prompted me
to come over here and poop on your lawn. This article
. https://insideevs.com/news/399322/tesla-mode-3-heated-rear-seats-upgrade/
just made me angry. Pay extra money to "enable" something that an owner already
bought and owns?! Why isn't every M3 owner with frequent rear-seat passengers
simply wiring in a switch? What's even more astounding is how instead, the kool-aid
crowd just chants the mantra and ponies up. It would be one thing if lower trims
simply didn't have seats with the heating elements, but to include the same
hardware across the line and then callously deny its use to a *vehicle owner*
should be decried as outright fraud.
_H*
I don't have a hard position on 'ownership' other than I paid Alabama a tax on full self driving. This is part of the scheme by states to tax software. Regardless, I've paid which means the functions that work on HW 2.5 are there and work reasonably well. With HW 3.0, a significantly upgraded image and sensor computer, more advanced features should soon work.
Tesla did offer a subscription service, $10/mo., for traffic and internet over their built-in phone link. I declined as the traffic monitoring, weather, and internet access are superior on my existing iPhone and mobile hotspots.
So our other car, a BMW i3-REx, required buying an OBD interface and iPhone software, BimmerCode:
One latent defect in our 2003 Prius was thermal mapping of the hybrid drivetrain. When the engine coolant reached a low temperature, the car forced the engine to run. So I used a TI-430 to spoof the coolant thermistor and allow engine off operation at lower coolant temperatures. Similar temperature flaws in the control laws were found in the 2017 Prius Prime that totally pissed me off.
IMHO, Tesla upped the level not only with over-the-air updates but disabling fast DC charging in the car if Tesla decides it is a salvage. I understand there is a $2k, recertification, but I would seriously consider an independent, DC charging approach.
Bob Wilson
Tesla did offer a subscription service, $10/mo., for traffic and internet over their built-in phone link. I declined as the traffic monitoring, weather, and internet access are superior on my existing iPhone and mobile hotspots.
So our other car, a BMW i3-REx, required buying an OBD interface and iPhone software, BimmerCode:
- enable REx at 75% SOC instead of automatic at 6% - this makes cross country driving practical. We turn on the REx and drive topping off the tank when reaching the last 1/4 tank, ~20 miles. When the electronic tank level limit is reached, the engine stops and we have the rest of the battery, ~50 miles, to reach a gas station.
- enable 2.3 gallon, tank level - the physical 2.8 gallon tank is software limited on how low it can go before the REx is turned off, originally 1.9 gallons. With the coding, I've added 0.4 usable gallons, ~30 miles.
- default driving mode "ECO PRO" - the middle of three settings, it remaps the accelerator curve for a sedate driving style that increases EV and gas range. This avoids the inefficient, frantic accelerator behavior.
- added tire temperature to tire pressure display - I'm anal about running tires at maximum sidewall pressure and as close to perfect alignment to improve handling and tire life at a slightly harder ride. Seeing the temperature lets me know if there is a leak or just one side was in the sun or shade.
- declined to add AM radio audio - the AM traffic alerts still get through to the navigation system but there is no interesting AM content.
One latent defect in our 2003 Prius was thermal mapping of the hybrid drivetrain. When the engine coolant reached a low temperature, the car forced the engine to run. So I used a TI-430 to spoof the coolant thermistor and allow engine off operation at lower coolant temperatures. Similar temperature flaws in the control laws were found in the 2017 Prius Prime that totally pissed me off.
IMHO, Tesla upped the level not only with over-the-air updates but disabling fast DC charging in the car if Tesla decides it is a salvage. I understand there is a $2k, recertification, but I would seriously consider an independent, DC charging approach.
Bob Wilson
interestedinEV
Well-Known Member
Like you, I do not like these gotchas and add on's that come later on. But (yes there is a but in my previous statement..), in all fairness heated seats are optional item in many cars, especially at the lower price range. In many lower end models, if you want heated seats, you have to buy a package with that feature.
Tesla may have decided it is just cheaper to have put this feature in all cars, rather than have twenty variants that other manufacturers have. For example, other manufacturers have several trim levels (standard , XS, XL, turbo etc etc) and various packages (convenience, weather, technology, navigation etc etc). Only some variants (combinations of trim level and package) have heated seats. This adds to the price of the car as each variant needs to be specifically made and inventoried.
Tesla just has 2-3 of trim levels and all cars in that trim level have all features, but they can turned on and off with software. Clever if you ask. Car production is standardized but feature usage can be customized due to use of software. It is cheaper than having so many combinations of trim level and packages.
That said, they should have been upfront about these charges. I do not see it in the choices. It cannot be, "buy the car first and then we will tell you what else we can give you if you pay more'