I'm a bit confused about this topic. From my understanding these tax credits won't expire until a manufacture reaches 200k cars sold, at which point the credits are reduced. However, I've been reading that it's unknown if the government will renew this going forward. Is this true? If so when are they set to make this decision?
EV Tax Credits Expiring in 2019?
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Pushmi-Pullyu
Well-Known Member
Some have speculated that the U.S Congress may move to extend the EV tax credit past the current limit of 200,000 U.S. sales per auto maker, so that GM and Tesla can continue to benefit from the tax rebate.
But that ignores the fact that far-right hardliners in the GOP are now in control of Congress. I think it far more likely that they will move to cut off the EV tax rebate as soon as both GM and Tesla cross the limit of 200,000 U.S. sales. There are certainly good reasons to believe that may happen; in fact, I'm surprised that the GOP-controlled Congress hasn't already moved to eliminate the EV tax credit altogether, given how pro-Big Oil Trump's original cabinet was, and how much the Scott Pruitt-lead EPA is rolling back and weakening restrictions on air and water pollution, as well as rolling back and/or weakening the mandate for automobile emissions.
Make no mistake: The Trumpster administration is, in general, strongly pro-Big Oil and anti-"green". That doesn't necessarily mean that the Cheeto-in-Chief himself is anti-Tesla, because it is a company making American cars. But it's the GOP in Congress who will decide whether or not the EV tax credit gets extended or, alternatively, gets cut off sooner than originally planned. The Big Cheeto isn't likely to try to influence Congress on that decision. Even if he's aware of the issue (which I think unlikely, given the fact that he reads almost nothing other than Twitter posts), I seriously doubt he cares much either way, let alone care enough to try to use his political influence to affect the outcome.
Contrariwise, the hard-liners in the GOP are very much opposed to EVs in general. Let's not forget that GOP presidential candidate Romney once called Tesla one of President Obama's "failures" during a debate with that President. Of course that's laughable -- nearly every company in the world would love to be as much of a "failure" as Tesla! But it certainly shows the hostility that GOP politicians -- especially far-right GOP politicians -- have toward Tesla and EVs in general.
If Congress does move to change the rules for the EV tax rebate, that will likely happen not long after either GM or Tesla crosses that 200,000 milestone. That will almost certainly happen to Tesla this quarter -- that is, sometime before the end of June this year. I'm not sure when GM will cross the threshold, but from what I've read it will happen at close to the same time, perhaps in the same quarter.
Contrariwise, given how difficult it has become for Congress to pass any bill at all of substance, it's quite possible that no change will happen. In that case, Tesla will see its tax rebate drop to half at the end of the 3rd quarter this year, and likely GM will be at the same place or not far behind.
Meanwhile, the other auto makers will unfortunately be rewarded for their foot-dragging on marketing EVs in the USA. It will be years before they pass the 200,000 threshold, so they will continue to benefit from the tax rebate for years unless Congress moves to change the law, while Tesla and GM get punished for actually taking the lead in building EVs to sell in the USA.
But that ignores the fact that far-right hardliners in the GOP are now in control of Congress. I think it far more likely that they will move to cut off the EV tax rebate as soon as both GM and Tesla cross the limit of 200,000 U.S. sales. There are certainly good reasons to believe that may happen; in fact, I'm surprised that the GOP-controlled Congress hasn't already moved to eliminate the EV tax credit altogether, given how pro-Big Oil Trump's original cabinet was, and how much the Scott Pruitt-lead EPA is rolling back and weakening restrictions on air and water pollution, as well as rolling back and/or weakening the mandate for automobile emissions.
Make no mistake: The Trumpster administration is, in general, strongly pro-Big Oil and anti-"green". That doesn't necessarily mean that the Cheeto-in-Chief himself is anti-Tesla, because it is a company making American cars. But it's the GOP in Congress who will decide whether or not the EV tax credit gets extended or, alternatively, gets cut off sooner than originally planned. The Big Cheeto isn't likely to try to influence Congress on that decision. Even if he's aware of the issue (which I think unlikely, given the fact that he reads almost nothing other than Twitter posts), I seriously doubt he cares much either way, let alone care enough to try to use his political influence to affect the outcome.
Contrariwise, the hard-liners in the GOP are very much opposed to EVs in general. Let's not forget that GOP presidential candidate Romney once called Tesla one of President Obama's "failures" during a debate with that President. Of course that's laughable -- nearly every company in the world would love to be as much of a "failure" as Tesla! But it certainly shows the hostility that GOP politicians -- especially far-right GOP politicians -- have toward Tesla and EVs in general.
If Congress does move to change the rules for the EV tax rebate, that will likely happen not long after either GM or Tesla crosses that 200,000 milestone. That will almost certainly happen to Tesla this quarter -- that is, sometime before the end of June this year. I'm not sure when GM will cross the threshold, but from what I've read it will happen at close to the same time, perhaps in the same quarter.
Contrariwise, given how difficult it has become for Congress to pass any bill at all of substance, it's quite possible that no change will happen. In that case, Tesla will see its tax rebate drop to half at the end of the 3rd quarter this year, and likely GM will be at the same place or not far behind.
Meanwhile, the other auto makers will unfortunately be rewarded for their foot-dragging on marketing EVs in the USA. It will be years before they pass the 200,000 threshold, so they will continue to benefit from the tax rebate for years unless Congress moves to change the law, while Tesla and GM get punished for actually taking the lead in building EVs to sell in the USA.
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jdonalds
Well-Known Member
I was concerned the tax credit was going to be killed in the last budget which was assembled at the end of 2017. That had a lot to do with me rushing to buy a Clarity before the end of the year, and paying full price to get one. But even though one form of the budget did contain language to kill the car tax credit it didn't pass and the credit was carried forward.
Beyond that it is all speculation going forward. Nobody really knows.
Beyond that it is all speculation going forward. Nobody really knows.
Pushmi-Pullyu
Well-Known Member
Yes, I was surprised and relieved that the anti-"green" forces in Congress didn't manage to kill the EV tax credit as part of the budget bill, despite the attempt to do so. But that doesn't mean they won't try again with another bill.
Fantastic explanation including the political commentary.Some have speculated that the U.S Congress may move to extend the EV tax credit past the current limit of 200,000 U.S. sales per auto maker, so that GM and Tesla can continue to benefit from the tax rebate.
But that ignores the fact that far-right hardliners in the GOP are now in control of Congress. I think it far more likely that they will move to cut off the EV tax rebate as soon as both GM and Tesla cross the limit of 200,000 U.S. sales. There are certainly good reasons to believe that may happen; in fact, I'm surprised that the GOP-controlled Congress hasn't already moved to eliminate the EV tax credit altogether, given how pro-Big Oil Trump's original cabinet was, and how much the Scott Pruitt-lead EPA is rolling back and weakening restrictions on air and water pollution, as well as rolling back and/or weakening the mandate for automobile emissions.
Make no mistake: The Trumpster administration is, in general, strongly pro-Big Oil and anti-"green". That doesn't necessarily mean that the Cheeto-in-Chief himself is anti-Tesla, because it is a company making American cars. But it's the GOP in Congress who will decide whether or not the EV tax credit gets extended or, alternatively, gets cut off sooner than originally planned. The Big Cheeto isn't likely to try to influence Congress on that decision. Even if he's aware of the issue (which I think unlikely, given the fact that he reads almost nothing other than Twitter posts), I seriously doubt he cares much either way, let alone care enough to try to use his political influence to affect the outcome.
Contrariwise, the hard-liners in the GOP are very much opposed to EVs in general. Let's not forget that GOP presidential candidate Romney once called Tesla one of President Obama's "failures" during a debate with that President. Of course that's laughable -- nearly every company in the world would love to be as much of a "failure" as Tesla! But it certainly shows the hostility that GOP politicians -- especially far-right GOP politicians -- have toward Tesla and EVs in general.
If Congress does move to change the rules for the EV tax rebate, that will likely happen not long after either GM or Tesla crosses that 200,000 milestone. That will almost certainly happen to Tesla this quarter -- that is, sometime before the end of June this year. I'm not sure when GM will cross the threshold, but from what I've read it will happen at close to the same time, perhaps in the same quarter.
Contrariwise, given how difficult it has become for Congress to pass any bill at all of substance, it's quite possible that no change will happen. In that case, Tesla will see its tax rebate drop to half at the end of the 3rd quarter this year, and likely GM will be at the same place or not far behind.
Meanwhile, the other auto makers will unfortunately be rewarded for their foot-dragging on marketing EVs in the USA. It will be years before they pass the 200,000 threshold, so they will continue to benefit from the tax rebate for years unless Congress moves to change the law, while Tesla and GM get punished for actually taking the lead in building EVs to sell in the USA.
Some of the comments here are more politically based than reality based. I can’t tell you how many posts I read in the Tesla forums that said “WE’RE DOOMED!” as soon as Trump was elected. Our tax credits will be gone, almost all screeched! Many launched into even deeper political diatribe, saying don’t worry about tax credits, we’ll soon have nuclear war!
I can’t begin to tell you how tiresome and ill-informed these rants are. The misinformation is simply stunning. Being fed this nonsense by a media, with an agenda, doesn’t help.
The tax credits didn’t go away, they were extended...with a Republican Congress. Golly, how could that happen? Most of the haters on the Tesla forum seemed to have little to say after the extension. Funny how that happens. Will the reality of what happened temper their future remarks? I doubt it.
I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised to see these credits extended further into 2019 and beyond. Please don’t think Republicans and/or conservatives, in general, are anti-green, they’re not. Are there some? Sure. Have I met and know many Dems who are anti-green and think hybrids and the like are nonsense? You betcha! No party has a lock on any of this.
I can’t begin to tell you how tiresome and ill-informed these rants are. The misinformation is simply stunning. Being fed this nonsense by a media, with an agenda, doesn’t help.
The tax credits didn’t go away, they were extended...with a Republican Congress. Golly, how could that happen? Most of the haters on the Tesla forum seemed to have little to say after the extension. Funny how that happens. Will the reality of what happened temper their future remarks? I doubt it.
I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised to see these credits extended further into 2019 and beyond. Please don’t think Republicans and/or conservatives, in general, are anti-green, they’re not. Are there some? Sure. Have I met and know many Dems who are anti-green and think hybrids and the like are nonsense? You betcha! No party has a lock on any of this.
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K8QM
Active Member
On a related note...
Yesterday my wife brought home the March/April 2018 issue of "Charged" (an EV trade magazine) that had a short mention that HR1892 has added the 30% charging station credit back into the budget so it's available for the 2017 tax year. There's a push to extend it further.
https://chargedevs.com/newswire/us-budget-deal-reinstates-ev-charging-station-tax-credit/
geo
Yesterday my wife brought home the March/April 2018 issue of "Charged" (an EV trade magazine) that had a short mention that HR1892 has added the 30% charging station credit back into the budget so it's available for the 2017 tax year. There's a push to extend it further.
https://chargedevs.com/newswire/us-budget-deal-reinstates-ev-charging-station-tax-credit/
geo
Maybe you are right- but only one party pushes the idea that climate change is a hoax, and it comes from many elected members of that party and its leader.Some of the comments here are more politically based than reality based. I can’t tell you how many posts I read in the Tesla forums that said “WE’RE DOOMED!” as soon as Trump was elected. Our tax credits will be gone, almost all screeched! Many launched into even deeper political diatribe, saying don’t worry about tax credits, we’ll soon have nuclear war!
I can’t begin to tell you how tiresome and ill-informed these rants are. The misinformation is simply stunning. Being fed this nonsense by a media, with an agenda, doesn’t help.
The tax credits didn’t go away, they were extended...with a Republican Congress. Golly, how could that happen? Most of the haters on the Tesla forum seemed to have little to say after the extension. Funny how that happens. Will the reality of what happened temper their future remarks? I doubt it.
I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised to see these credits extended further into 2019 and beyond. Please don’t think Republicans and/or conservatives, in general, are anti-green, they’re not. Are there some? Sure. Have I met and know many Dems who are anti-green and think hybrids and the like are nonsense? You betcha! No party has a lock on any of this.
Pushmi-Pullyu
Well-Known Member
I'm certainly willing to be convinced I'm wrong on this point if the facts indicate something I said was wrong. Could you please provide details?
Thanks!
* * * * *
“‘When the facts change, I change my mind,’ John Maynard Keynes once observed in a debate. ‘What do you do, sir?’ Why, sir, they take no notice of changed facts and so are untroubled by such questions.” -- Rex Murphy
Don't start me on that. I have 2 degrees in Meteorology and have taken numerous Climatology courses in the process, so I'm far from a novice on this subject. As I said, don't get me started on this as I'm likely to make many enemies here. Once again, the misinformation out there is several levels beyond stunning. A big sarcastic 'thank you' to Mr. Gore for much of this. A shyster of unprecedented proportions IMO. The same guy that goes flying around in private jets, rides in huge ICE vehicles, buys homes by the ocean...the same ocean that he insists will rise many feet and refuses to debate actual scientists/meteorologists/climatologists who have differing opinions. Forgive me guys, this is a very sensitive topic to me that I could discuss for hours.
We should probably get back to the Clarity before this deteriorates.
The facts (an extension of tax credits), speaks for itself.
Pushmi-Pullyu
Well-Known Member
The facts (an extension of tax credits), speaks for itself.
What extension?
I'm not aware of any extension of the Federal EV income tax credit which has happened under the current administration. So far as I know, that has remained unchanged from the rules put in place under the Obama Administration.
Color me confused...
The original House version of the tax reform bill that took effect January 1, 2018 would have eliminated the tax credit, but it was kept in the Senate version (and ultimately retained in the final bill) due to lobbying by car manufacturers to keep it in place. Whether you count this as an extension or a reprieve, I suppose, is a matter of semantics.
As to whether or not Tesla and GM will push for either a cap increase or end to everyones' credits once their 200,000 quota is met, I don't think anyone can really say one way or another. Ford and Chrysler will almost certainly want to keep the credit in place so they can benefit down the road, so the "please all of the US automakers" option of increasing the quota is probably the path of least resistance, particularly since it's pocket change in terms of its effects on the federal budget.
Pushmi-Pullyu
Well-Known Member
I was afraid that's what he meant.
I don't think it's appropriate to praise someone for refraining from destroying something good after they've threatened to do so. They shouldn't have made the threat in the first place. The absence of a negative does not equal the existence of a positive.
And ethics or morality aside, it's grammatically incorrect to call it an "extension" just because Congress failed to bring the tax rebate to an early end. An actual extension would mean the rebate would last longer than originally planned.
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dstrauss
Well-Known Member
Alright folks, the KING of hijacking threads declares it's time to cut the political chatter, and move this discussion to "Off Topic" or maybe "Energy." Let's refocus on any scoops that can prepare us for possible changes in the tax laws that would impact our buying decisions.
We may consider it ‘something good’, but many (not just politicians) don’t feel that way. Many people, both Dems and Reps, look at the tax credits as them subsidizing us. If you’re objective, their point can be seen.
At any rate the credit could well have been eliminated by the Republican Congress, but it wasn’t. Play whatever game of semantics you like, but the Reps could have killed it and they didn’t. What ever floats your boat.
Tax credits aside, it’s obvious from watching the media that no credit will be given to the President or any Rep for anything they do.
Unfortunately you’ve turned this into a political debate from your original anti-Rep post, which I feel has absolutely no place in a forum like this. That’s unfortunate. I was pulled too easily into this morass. I generally enjoy forums like this because they’re usually a respite from the relentless political bickering that goes on.
At any rate the credit could well have been eliminated by the Republican Congress, but it wasn’t. Play whatever game of semantics you like, but the Reps could have killed it and they didn’t. What ever floats your boat.
Tax credits aside, it’s obvious from watching the media that no credit will be given to the President or any Rep for anything they do.
Unfortunately you’ve turned this into a political debate from your original anti-Rep post, which I feel has absolutely no place in a forum like this. That’s unfortunate. I was pulled too easily into this morass. I generally enjoy forums like this because they’re usually a respite from the relentless political bickering that goes on.
I’ll vote this the best post of the year!!Alright folks, the KING of hijacking threads declares it's time to cut the political chatter, and move this discussion to "Off Topic" or maybe "Energy." Let's refocus on any scoops that can prepare us for possible changes in the tax laws that would impact our buying decisions.