EU and US discussing an exemption that would include EVs from European members in US tax credits

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revorg said:
From Electrek
"The European Union has asked the United States to include EVs, batteries, and other sustainable products sold on US soil in federal tax credits, similar to benefits it currently offers its North American neighbors. According to a recent report, the US and EU are in discussions about what’s possible."
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Would that include EV cars built in China that sort-of look like cars built in the UK by a company based in the EU?
 
Since the SE is built in the UK (not the EU due to Brexit) and soon to be replaced by Chinese assembly, I don't think any agreement between the EU and US will matter for the SE or its replacement, nor for the Aceman. Maybe for the Countryman SE which is built in Germany...
 
It’s really a shame that Hyundai/Kia are getting locked out. They built arguably the best EVs for the most people with the Ioniq/EV6.

Btw, does the SE contain a Chinese-made CATL battery? Seems like MINI has two major points against it (non-NA made, and non-NA battery source).
 
polyphonic said:
It’s really a shame that Hyundai/Kia are getting locked out. They built arguably the best EVs for the most people with the Ioniq/EV6.

Btw, does the SE contain a Chinese-made CATL battery? Seems like MINI has two major points against it (non-NA made, and non-NA battery source).
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The problem is Koreans are moving to eM and eS platforms so the E-GMP platform is already outdated.

MINI does utilize CATL batteries and they probably kept the NCM 333. Generally speaking, it takes about 20kg of cobalt per 100kWh of battery so roughly 6kg for the MINI. Once BMW swaps over to Neue Klasse there will be at least 2 North American battery plants. One is the South Carolina Envision AESC, the other is likely destined for Mexico to be closer to Plant San Luis Potosi.
 
GetOffYourGas said:
The EU could just enter a free trade agreement with the US. No exception needed.
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Yes, and the UK (post-Brexit) has some months ago started talks with the US for a UK/US free-trade agreement which, if successful, could re-qualify SE's manufactured at Oxford. (Maybe then (if and when) BMW will readjust its SE manufacturing strategy to include Oxford again?)
 
Texas22Step said:
Yes, and the UK (post-Brexit) has some months ago started talks with the US for a UK/US free-trade agreement which, if successful, could re-qualify SE's manufactured at Oxford. (Maybe then (if and when) BMW will readjust its SE manufacturing strategy to include Oxford again?)
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The Chinese CATL batteries would be a problem, wouldn't they?
 
Texas22Step said:
UK (post-Brexit) has some months ago started talks with the US for a UK/US free-trade agreement
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Going nowhere: UK Will Not Strike Trade Deal with US for Years (is LBC a decent source to cite? Articles on free trade talks are sparse, possibly indicating very little activity). Yeah, previous government but considering the accelerating rate at which the Tories change leaders how can there be any continuity in policy? Meanwhile, depending on the elections, the US could become disfunctional in our own way.
 
revorg said:
From Electrek
"The European Union has asked the United States to include EVs, batteries, and other sustainable products sold on US soil in federal tax credits, similar to benefits it currently offers its North American neighbors. According to a recent report, the US and EU are in discussions about what’s possible."
Click to expand...


I'm a little confused. I'm in Florida and just received my new Mini all electric. We were told we will get a $7500 tax credit this year. Is that not the case?
 
Since we have a contract to purchase the car as we ordered it in May, and we already traded in a car worth $29,000 which they sold a couple weeks later, I don't see any possibility of the government (as flaky as they are) insisting our contract wasn't binding. It's pretty hard to imagine anyone arguing that the dealer would have given us back $29,500.00 (including a cash deposit) if we happened to change our minds. Meanwhile we found this on the IRS site -- seems pretty clear:

Transition Rule for Vehicles Purchased before August 16, 2022
If you entered into a written binding contract to purchase a new qualifying electric vehicle before August 16, 2022, but do not take possession of the vehicle until on or after August 16, 2022 (for example, because the vehicle has not been delivered), you may claim the EV credit based on the rules that were in effect before August 16, 2022. The final assembly requirement does not apply before August 16, 2022.
What Is a Written Binding Contract?
In general, a written contract is binding if it is enforceable under State law and does not limit damages to a specified amount (for example, by use of a liquidated damages provision or the forfeiture of a deposit). While the enforceability of a contract under State law is a facts-and-circumstances determination to be made under relevant State law, if a customer has made a significant non-refundable deposit or down payment, it is an indication of a binding contract. For tax purposes in general, a contract provision that limits damages to an amount equal to at least 5 percent of the total contract price is not treated as limiting damages to a specified amount. For example, if a customer has made a non-refundable deposit or down payment of 5 percent of the total contract price, it is an indication of a binding contract. A contract is binding even if subject to a condition, as long as the condition is not within the control of either party. A contract will continue to be binding if the parties make insubstantial changes in its terms and conditions.
 
patash said:
Since we have a contract to purchase the car as we ordered it in May, and we already traded in a car worth $29,000 which they sold a couple weeks later, I don't see any possibility of the government (as flaky as they are) insisting our contract wasn't binding. It's pretty hard to imagine anyone arguing that the dealer would have given us back $29,500.00 (including a cash deposit) if we happened to change our minds. Meanwhile we found this on the IRS site -- seems pretty clear:

Transition Rule for Vehicles Purchased before August 16, 2022
If you entered into a written binding contract to purchase a new qualifying electric vehicle before August 16, 2022, but do not take possession of the vehicle until on or after August 16, 2022 (for example, because the vehicle has not been delivered), you may claim the EV credit based on the rules that were in effect before August 16, 2022. The final assembly requirement does not apply before August 16, 2022.
What Is a Written Binding Contract?
In general, a written contract is binding if it is enforceable under State law and does not limit damages to a specified amount (for example, by use of a liquidated damages provision or the forfeiture of a deposit). While the enforceability of a contract under State law is a facts-and-circumstances determination to be made under relevant State law, if a customer has made a significant non-refundable deposit or down payment, it is an indication of a binding contract. For tax purposes in general, a contract provision that limits damages to an amount equal to at least 5 percent of the total contract price is not treated as limiting damages to a specified amount. For example, if a customer has made a non-refundable deposit or down payment of 5 percent of the total contract price, it is an indication of a binding contract. A contract is binding even if subject to a condition, as long as the condition is not within the control of either party. A contract will continue to be binding if the parties make insubstantial changes in its terms and conditions.
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You gave them your car worth $29k back in May, and only now got your SE in return?? That's crazy.
 
CuriousGeorge said:
You gave them your car worth $29k back in May, and only now got your SE in return?? That's crazy.
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Thank you for your opinion (although you don't know all the circumstances). In May we were at the height of super trade in value. We paid $29,000 for a 2019 VW beetle convertible in 2018. It only had 13,000 miles on it and was in showroom condition. We had checked on selling it outright and were getting offers of around $25,000 to $29,000. But when the dealer offered us $29.000 which didn't include the additional over $2000 tax savings, we went for it. We could have kept the car for the summer (which we didn't really need) but the trade in price would not stand. Trust me -- the trade in for it at the end of October would have been several thousand less than we got We checked. So call us crazy -- but we didn't mind saving up to $5000 for trading in a car we didn't need 5 months early! Oh, not to mention we saved on no insurance on that usused car for those 5 months too. But if you think that's crazy. . .
 
I agree that you didn’t need to explain it, but nevertheless, cheers! Good on ya! No judgment here, and I’m glad you benefitted.
 
patash said:
Since we have a contract to purchase the car as we ordered it in May, and we already traded in a car worth $29,000 which they sold a couple weeks later, I don't see any possibility of the government (as flaky as they are) insisting our contract wasn't binding. It's pretty hard to imagine anyone arguing that the dealer would have given us back $29,500.00 (including a cash deposit) if we happened to change our minds. Meanwhile we found this on the IRS site -- seems pretty clear:

Transition Rule for Vehicles Purchased before August 16, 2022
If you entered into a written binding contract to purchase a new qualifying electric vehicle before August 16, 2022, but do not take possession of the vehicle until on or after August 16, 2022 (for example, because the vehicle has not been delivered), you may claim the EV credit based on the rules that were in effect before August 16, 2022. The final assembly requirement does not apply before August 16, 2022.
What Is a Written Binding Contract?
In general, a written contract is binding if it is enforceable under State law and does not limit damages to a specified amount (for example, by use of a liquidated damages provision or the forfeiture of a deposit). While the enforceability of a contract under State law is a facts-and-circumstances determination to be made under relevant State law, if a customer has made a significant non-refundable deposit or down payment, it is an indication of a binding contract. For tax purposes in general, a contract provision that limits damages to an amount equal to at least 5 percent of the total contract price is not treated as limiting damages to a specified amount. For example, if a customer has made a non-refundable deposit or down payment of 5 percent of the total contract price, it is an indication of a binding contract. A contract is binding even if subject to a condition, as long as the condition is not within the control of either party. A contract will continue to be binding if the parties make insubstantial changes in its terms and conditions.
Click to expand...
IMO (I'm not a lawyer, mind you), you have the best case of a "binding contract" of any post-August 16th delivery SE discussed on this forum. Still, a statement from your dealer would be a good thing to have in hand--especially if the people you dealt with at the dealership happen to move to another job by the time the IRS gets around to deciding the validity of your claim.

Was it the dealership who guaranteed you would get the tax credit?
 
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