Energy Saving Tires

[Annwn]

I've ordered Crossclimate+ as well. Coincidentally, I have 27K miles on my 2018 (delivered 12/17) Clarity and the OEM tires have become downright dangerous in light snow (the treads still look pretty good so age probably contributes). I almost crashed going slowly around a corner. It's gotten pretty bad on wet pavement too. Until I get the new tires installed, I only drive the Clarity on dry roads. When the car was new, I was impressed with snow handling so beware if your tires are getting to 3 years old. The Crossclimate2 is not currently available in Clarity's size but don't worry that you're getting an obsolete tire with the Crossclimate+. The below video explains the difference (probably accurate because Michelin supplied his tires). The Crossclimate+ was designed for the needs of European drivers while the CC2 was designed for the US market. The CC+ has better handling and braking in dry and wet conditions (according the Tirerack tests) while the CC2 should be better in the snow and last longer (according to Michelin). For folks here, the CC+ should also provide better fuel efficiency/range than the CC2 (again a greater priority for European drivers). The major plus for us is that the CC+ will provide superior performance to OEM on all aspects except range.
BTW, the CC+ also has a higher load rating (important for a heavy car like the Clarity), temperature rating (A vs OEM's B), and speed rating (Y vs OEM's V) compared to the Energy Savers.

The Crossclimate 2 being limited in sizes was something I found quite disappointing because you can buy Michelins everywhere. Fortunately, there are competitors. Nokian recently released their WR G4, and as the leader in the true all season tire segment, it may even be a slightly better tire than the CC2. I would not be surprised if many of the things you/Michelin said about the CC+ vs the CC2 are also somewhat accurate with the WR G4 standing in for the CC2 - I do know they specifically mentioned wanting to get the tread life up for the WR G4 for US customers, but I have not seen any performance change mentions - albeit such things are rare to run across in the tire world at times. The Nokian does come in 235 45R18 as well as other less common sizes. I have these tires on my Toyota Corolla, and they are great. Frankly, except for specialized tires, I have no idea why these all season tires not the majority of what is sold in most 4 season climates. They feature many of the improvements of dedicated winter tires. Our Toyota Corolla has been noticeably better with these tires than our 4wd suv with new Bridgestones in several conditions - snow, sleet/slush, and rain.

Tread life is in the 60k range but the all season benefits are well worth it IMO. The price is not bad, the downside is that not many places carry them. You can buy them on Amazon, but for local places you can order them on Walmart.com for installation at a local store and is what I went with. I think Discount Tire can order them also (they only have the SUV version on their website, but you can order from the store), but that was the only alternative around us. Walmart was a bit cheaper all around and there are thousands of locations for any issues. Because they are not in stock anywhere and have to be ordered, the tire guy suggested we keep one of our old tires in case of a replacement issue - which we did.

These tires are a bit stickier than normal tires, so I would expect to lose some mpg, especially vs energy savers. I would say 1-2mpg on our Corolla vs some hard 90k tread warranty Continentals. I felt like the trade off was worth it given the improvements I noticed. When I get my Clarity, I will buy these tires whenever I wear out the OEM.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Nokian-WR-G4-235-45R18/262994329

 

[Theoburns]

Has anyone noticed if any of the non-OEM tires stand out more from the rim? The OEM tires are nearly flush with the rim and even the slightest brush against a curb causes damage to the wheel. Compared to other cars that I have owned where usually only the tire gets scratched. Which is not good either and obviously it's best to avoid touching a curb but I'm wondering is this a characteristic with this size of tire or is it specific to the OEM Michelins?

 

[Landshark]

Has anyone noticed if any of the non-OEM tires stand out more from the rim? The OEM tires are nearly flush with the rim and even the slightest brush against a curb causes damage to the wheel.

Robert_Alabama reported in a thread, “Newer Design (2018) Michelin Energy Saver...” that a “new” set of Michelin OEM tires actually protruded out ~1/4” from the rim. Perhaps the tires are late-2019 or newer, as my 2019 dated tires are flush with the rim.

That doesn’t actually answer your question, but may help lead you to a set of tires that will help protect the rims.

 

[Robert_Alabama]

I tried to take a few pics to show new tires versus OEM:
Heres an OEM June 2017 manufacture date on the rim:





Here is a photo of one of the newer tires manufactured January 2020 mounted:


Here's a photo of one of the new tires before mounting:



All tires are Michelin Energy Saver A/S 235 45 18

 

[Robert_Alabama]

Thought this photo of the 2020 Michelin Energy Saver A/S 235 45 18 might help to show depth. I am holding 3 quarters flush against the rim and the outside of the quarters is flush against the rubber bead on the tire. So the rim is inset almost a 1/4 inch inside the protection of the bead of the tire.

 

[Landshark]

Date code on tire is 32nd week of 2018. Production date on car is 5/19. We took delivery 8/19. Level across tire. Tire protrudes beyond rim by about the width of a dime.

 

[Robert_Alabama]

And the plot thickens.... I bought another tire from Ebay that was very low miles (different seller). I just looked at it and it has a manufacture date of 4617... 46th week of 2017 or about November 2017. It also has the deep "lip" to protect the wheel. I also followed the lead from @Landshark and laid a long level against my wheel. Same results as what I said earlier, 3 quarters fit loosely inside against the rim edge, 4 quarters won't quite go in. As to why Honda seems to be using a different Michelin Energy Saver A/S 235 45 18 than I have in my garage (I have 2 of the deep "lip" on my car and 5 stacked up - 4 will probably go to my father-in-law who also has a Clarity). Now the question is, since I have no idea where these "nearly new" tires came from, I don't know for sure that if someone else buys new Michelin Energy Saver A/S tires from a retailer, what they will get, flat ones like the Clarity OEM or the inset ones with a reasonable lip like I have purchased...

 

[Theoburns]

Robert_Alabama reported in a thread, “Newer Design (2018) Michelin Energy Saver...” that a “new” set of Michelin OEM tires actually protruded out ~1/4” from the rim. Perhaps the tires are late-2019 or newer, as my 2019 dated tires are flush with the rim.

Thought this photo of the 2020 Michelin Energy Saver A/S 235 45 18 might help to show depth. I am holding 3 quarters flush against the rim and the outside of the quarters is flush against the rubber bead on the tire. So the rim is inset almost a 1/4 inch inside the protection of the bead of the tire.

Oh wow, I just measured mine with a straight edge. My 2018 has three original Energy Saver A/S which are dated 3218. Only 1.5 mm clearance. One of my tires was replaced last year with another Energy Saver A/S from Costco dated 2520, it has 5 mm clearance! My other car has 195 70 14 tires and the clearance is even better at 7 mm. But 5 mm is way better than 1.5 mm that's for sure.

 

[Robert_Alabama]

@Theoburns , that helps. So it seems Costco sells the Energy Saver A/S with deeper lip. Now, the question is do all retailers sell the Energy Saver A/S with a deeper lip, and somehow Honda gets the "flat" tire with shallow lip as the OEM tire? Too strange.

Edited to add: I just checked my 2019 Volt which has 215 50 17 Energy Saver A/S on it with manufacture date 3818 (about September of 2018). They are the flat design just like the Honda OEM tires. I don't know for sure that retailers sell these with the deeper lip, but I am now suspicious that is the case as well. Still, too strange that Michelin makes two different designs for the "same" tire...

 

[Theoburns]

@Theoburns , that helps. So it seems Costco sells the Energy Saver A/S with deeper lip. Now, the question is do all retailers sell the Energy Saver A/S with a deeper lip, and somehow Honda gets the "flat" tire with shallow lip as the OEM tire? Too strange.

Edited to add: I just checked my 2019 Volt which has 215 50 17 Energy Saver A/S on it with manufacture date 3818 (about September of 2018). They are the flat design just like the Honda OEM tires. I don't know for sure that retailers sell these with the deeper lip, but I am now suspicious that is the case as well. Still, too strange that Michelin makes two different designs for the "same" tire...

Visually they are very different, which I had not noticed before. Not sure how well it would show in photos, but the older tires are rounded as they near the rim, the new tires have a sharp angle near the rim which I would call a chine (think of a Gen 3 Prius, or a Lockheed SR-71, whichever image works for you). Once you see the difference it is very easy to tell them apart.

 

[Landshark]

I’m beginning to think that Michelin changed the mold at some point. Maybe a new thread on tire dates could help us find an answer?

I’m moderately disappointed that our car was fitted with 1 year old tires, but I figure I’ll wear them out before they get too old. On our motorhome I won’t accept tires that are more than 3 months old, as it is a common practice to replace tires between 7-10 years regardless of mileage. They’re not cheap, but a failure can be catastrophic.

 

[Robert_Alabama]

I’m beginning to think that Michelin changed the mold at some point.

But... one of my tires with the "raised lip" to protect the rim has a date code of 4617 (about November of 2017) and your's (@Landshark's) has a date code for a tire without the lip of 3218 (about September of 2018).... Looks like Michelin was making one tire for car manufacturer's and one for retail.

 

[ICanBreakIt]

Usually OEM tires are different than the aftermarket one's even if they have the same name. That's what a local tire shop said and I've read it online a lot. The guy at the tire shop was surprised by how much tread I had at 15k miles on OEM tires.

I'm surprised that someone said the Clarity has good handling, my 18 year old civic that I just sold had way better handling. I feel like I'm steering a boat when I turn in the clarity.

 

[Landshark]

That's what a local tire shop said and I've read it online a lot. The guy at the tire shop was surprised by how much tread I had at 15k miles on OEM tires.

I can’t even begin to explain the low level of respect I hold for the average moron at the local tire shop.

And your Civic probably handled differently from a Clarity because it weighed a thousand pounds less.

 

[turtleturtle]

I'm surprised that someone said the Clarity has good handling, my 18 year old civic that I just sold had way better handling. I feel like I'm steering a boat when I turn in the clarity.

Our 2010 Civic had great handling. Wide tires; good stance.

I call the Clarity my land yacht. Long front; heavier car. Obviously cars come a lot bigger than this, but I know what you mean. I think the handling is fine, but it’s different.

 

[insightman]

I'm surprised that someone said the Clarity has good handling, my 18 year old civic that I just sold had way better handling. I feel like I'm steering a boat when I turn in the clarity.

I said that the Clarity handles well for a 2-ton car. Our old Civic handled better than our Clarity but it didn't weigh 4,000 lbs. I'm sure the 5,000 lb. Porsche Taycan handles better than the Clarity, but it costs over $100K. So I'll claim the Clarity is the best handling 4,000-lb. car you can buy for less than $30K. That should be enough qualifiers to make my claim valid without disputing your reasons for your disappointment.

Clearly, you didn't have parents who drove a Mercury Marquis if you think the Clarity handles like a boat. I got seasick riding in the back seat of that scow. The danger of losing my lunch is my criterion for saying a car handles like a boat.

 

[Recoil45]

Time for new tires! Are energy saving tires worth the extra cost? Do they wear out quicker than not energy savers? $800 dollars for tires just seems a bit insane to me. I have a truck and I don't spend that much!

Pay for the tire that give the shortage braking distance. Deal with the mileage hit.


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[Landshark]

Pay for the tire that give the shortage braking distance.

Wet or dry?

 

[Recoil45]

Wet or dry?

Depends on if you live in Oregon or Arizona I suppose.


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[Landshark]

Depends on if you live in Oregon or Arizona I suppose.

I’ve driven in both, among other states, in both wet and dry conditions. Sometimes it varies from one day to the next.

I also don’t tailgate, so the shortest stopping distance offered by a particular tire isn’t a top concern when tire shopping.