Dealers and availability

[interestedinEV]

My wife has been looking for this to get a test drive, but I think you would right about where it will first be sold.

I wonder if this low-end trim-level will be available from the start? I also wonder how US distribution will be allocated. Will I get one early because I placed my deposit long ago or will California get all they can absorb (which I predict will be many) because of the CA ZEV credits this BEV will generate?

If the past is any indicator (with other companies), BMW/MINI will first come out in CA and saturate the market with the higher end trims, then move down the chain to other trims, then move to other states that have larger incentives or follow CA standards, before a national rollout. It makes most sense that way. To roll out the EV version, dealers have to invest in equipment, training and allocate capital. Hence, they are going to go where the sales is likely to be the highest or where the company needs to comply with emission standards. I live in Arizona and for example I cannot get the Hyundai EV or VW EVs. A dealer that I talked to told me that much, that his dealership had a few inquiries that was forwarded to Hyundai and were told that till they could meet the CA needs, they would not allocate to even neighboring states. I was told that even if I bought it in CA, any service in AZ would be on the best effort basis only.

So I would not hold my breadth that MINI electric will be available soon in most states. My guess is that people in other states have to wait for at least one year after CA launch. And even that is optimistic. It would depend on demand and obviously supply.

 

[insightman]

So I would not hold my breadth that MINI electric will be available soon in most states. My guess is that people in other states have to wait for at least one year after CA launch.

First, thank you for chiming in with your comment. I was feeling pretty lonely on this thread. Second, I agree with your assumption that CA will get all the SEs first and the non-obvious problem of training MINI dealerships to service the SE.

I wonder how long it would take me to drive from California back to Michigan, stopping every 100 miles for a public EVSE? Of course, it would depend on whether I could find 35-45 minute DC Fast Charge stations or had to wait 4 hours for an AC EVSE at every one of the 24 stops I'd have to make. I guess I could have the car shipped, but what fun would that be? Back in 1983, I had an epic journey driving a mufflerless, topless, 850cc Morris Mini Moke from Hilton Head, SC, back to Michigan, but that's another story (the highlight being a stop at a convenience store called the "Morris Mini Mart").

Unfortunately, if I took delivery in CA instead of having it shipped, I'd have to pay CA tax--and MI tax.

The 100-miles-per-leg distance is based on unconfirmed speculation that the MINI Cooper SE's EPA-estimated range will be 114 miles per charge. It might be better than that, however. I was encouraged by this story about driving a MINI Cooper SE to the North Sea coast.

The story says, "...the MINI Cooper SE embarked on a 200-kilometer journey from the Hanseatic city of Hamburg up to the picturesque island of Sylt, in the Northern Sea. Due to its specifically developed driving modes, the "green" MINI was able to cover the trip to Sylt and the return to Hamburg without the need of recharging its batteries."

If the SE can go 200 km, it can go 124 miles just as easily. I wish the story would have specified what driving mode was used. I feel safe in assuming they used the GREEN+ mode that disables the HVAC and heated seats to stretch the range.

 

[interestedinEV]

Bluntly, with a 114 mile range I would not chance it. @bwilson4web is a whizz at route planning and he may have better ideas, but I cannot see a path on plug share from say Northern CA (Sacramento or near by, Southern CA would add another 300-400 miles). I see several gaps in the plugshare map below that are more than 120 miles apart, especially in the middle of the country. Also do not forget the time element, if you are charging every 1.5 to 2 hours. What will happen is that you drive 1.5 hours, and then spend another 1-1.5 hours charging, before you can resume. So you may be able to do a maximum of 300-400 miles a day, assuming that there are no delays in charging, while you might be able to do double that range in an ICE or a car such as Tesla S.

Bob any suggestions for a route from northern CA to MI (say Detroit) when you have 120 mile range?

That said, dealers may be willing to take only the MI tax without CA tax and ship it directly. It is not uncommon and there are several instances in the Hyundai Kona forum where NJ dealers did this. You have to find the right dealer, but then dealer may not be willing to negotiate on price, you may have to pay the MSRP. CA dealers are dealing with a supply problem so would demand top dollar and be less willing to go the extra mile but it can be done. If you can wait for some time after the launch, you may have better luck.

 

[bwilson4web]

Bob any suggestions for a route from northern CA to MI (say Detroit) when you have 120 mile range?

You've pretty well nailed it. When I tried trip planning for a CCS-1 vs. SuperCharger comparison on the Huntsville-to-Los Angeles route back in August, there was a gap in the California-to-Arizona section. Also, check the user comments as some of the Electrify America/EVgo station have been dodgy.

The real challenge is not just the 120 mile range but also the fast DC charging rate. Our 100 kW peak, Model 3 can within the SuperCharger network go anywhere with a reasonable block-to-block speed of 60-65 mph. But any slower charging rates like our 50 kW BMW i3-REx would be pretty brutal (and expensive.)

Bob Wilson

 

[interestedinEV]

More questions: What does BMW/MINI require of dealers before they can sell and service the MINI Cooper SE? Is the training to support the MINI Countryman SE PHEV deemed sufficient? Is there special equipment, such as battery lifts and new computers, required to qualify a dealership to sell this car?

The impression I got was that it is not a trivial effort. You have to send sales people and technicians for training, I am sure there are some additional equipment, and manuals to be stocked, it is not a mere variant of last years model, this is a completely different model. Yes, you have a PHEV being sold, but the battery pack sizes and locations are different. It may not be humongous difference but it is there. Also remember the type of customer who comes to buy a BEV is different from that of other types, even PHEV. They will ask a lot of different questions. For example charging time and charging options is a new question, not needed for other types.

I hope the need to offset gas-guzzler BMWs doesn't mean all the MINI Cooper SE cars will be shipped to California.

Many of them will go to California first. Again, it is based on both demand and compliance needs.

 

[insightman]

Two weeks from todays date will be my first chance to view a Mini E in the flesh. I have a list of questions to accost the dealer with....

Please report to us what you learn. Every day I run a new google search to discover what tiny tidbits might have been tossed to the 'net by MINI's publicity department since my last search. It will be interesting to see if MINI dares to send someone to the event who actually can answer all your questions or if they send a know-nothing, I'll-get-back-to-you, representative. In my experience, I have to teach the car salesmen (no women, so far) I visit everything about the electrified cars I want to buy from them, starting with my 2000 Honda Insight.

The one thing I've yet to read anything about is the battery cooling system. Is it the same as the i3's? How does it connect to the heat pump to warm the cabin? What does it do when the ambient temperature is higher than the best operating temperature for the battery? Can it "air condition" the battery to a lower temperature than the ambient temperature? Does the motor use the same cooling system? Does it have a cooling system? How does it connect to the heat pump to warm the cabin?

 

[T.C.]

Yesterday I received a call from my Mini dealership asking me to bob in and finalise colour choices and wheel options.
Having returned from the dealership, I now have more idea of the order of upcoming events.
The first Mini electrics to the UK will be batches of demo' cars allocated to dealerships. These will be loaned out to customers who have lodged deposits at those dealerships. The time frame suggests this will be late January or early February.
Having used the car for a couple of days, customers can then opt to continue with the delivery of their selected vehicle in March, or choose to cancel the order for a full refund.
Oh yes. Because I was the first to place a deposit I am assured I will be given a demonstrator first.

 

[insightman]

Having used the car for a couple of days, customers can then opt to continue with the delivery of their selected vehicle in March, or choose to cancel the order for a full refund.

That loaner program is certainly a pro-customer approach, but it shows the company is concerned that people may not like the car as much as they expected when they placed their deposit. I've totally brainwashed myself into believing the MINI Cooper SE for which I placed a deposit will be fabulous, so if MINI USA also has a try-out program, it will be tough to give back the loaner and wait for my MINI.

I know the car is now in production. Are automotive journalists now receiving cars for testing? Sometimes car companies impose an embargo date before which no test reports can be published, but I don't know if that's the case with the MINI Electric/MINI Cooper SE.

Finally, when, oh when, is MINI going to release the EPA range numbers?

 

[interestedinEV]

The first Mini electrics to the UK will be batches of demo' cars allocated to dealerships. These will be loaned out to customers who have lodged deposits at those dealerships. The time frame suggests this will be late January or early February.
Having used the car for a couple of days, customers can then opt to continue with the delivery of their selected vehicle in March, or choose to cancel the order for a full refund.

Interesting strategy

The MINI dealers in the US are clueless (may be that is not a fair statement, my local Arizona dealer appeared clueless). I was at our local MINI dealer yesterday, to get my wife's car serviced, and tried to strike up a conversation about the MINI SE with a salesperson and his ignorance was telling:

Me "So do you have any information on the MINI Electric?"
Salesman "We hear it may come in May or June"
Me "The problem is going to be the range, in the US it may be low"
Salesman "No worries, MINI listens to feedback and will fix all those issues before they arrive here"

It was very clear that he had no idea what I was talking about. Clearly not much information has been disseminated.

 

[insightman]

my local Arizona dealer appeared clueless

After reading your post, I made up a PDF fact-sheet for my local MINI Ann Arbor dealership to use. Sadly, your AZ MINI dealer may be too clueless to benefit.

I'll revise this fact sheet after MINI gets around to revealing the EPA range numbers. I'll also revise it if anyone finds any errors--so if you take a look, please tell me if there are any errors. Thanks.

 

[T.C.]

The fact sheets look fine.
Clearly I'm unaware if a similar policy will be adopted worldwide, or if this policy is purely restricted to the UK.
Other than the option of level I, II or III. The only options were, which colour body and roof I required and which alloy wheel option I desired. That's it. No pack options or upgrade lists. Nothing at all. Very un-BMW like.
Reading this thread it looks like there are only a few of us interested in purchasing!

 

[interestedinEV]

After reading your post, I made up a PDF fact-sheet for my local MINI Ann Arbor dealership to use. Sadly, your AZ MINI dealer may be too clueless to benefit.

The Tesla Model 3 prices are higher and the max range is 250 miles. just a couple of nits, else it is pretty good.

 

[insightman]

The Tesla Model 3 prices are higher and the max range is 250 miles. just a couple of nits, else it is pretty good.

The more nits the better--I want to be accurate.

Your clip displayed the 250-mile "Standard Range Plus," not the 220-mile "Standard Range" that Tesla makes more difficult to purchase. I mean, really, no internet sales--call-in or store sales only? I took my data for the cheapest Model 3 from this Wikipedia page.

 

[insightman]

Reading this thread it looks like there are only a few of us interested in purchasing!

Sad, but true. When the car is for sale and BMW lifts the embargo on publishing road tests, I believe this car will find its customers. The early adopters will be driving enthusiasts rather than advocates of the "range-is-everything" philosophy. The generous incentives in some markets (eg. California) that bring the price below $20K USD for this sophisticated (includes liquid battery cooling), well-appointed (compared to price-competitors) will make the car attractive to electric-car enthusiasts.

Then, again, I thought the Clarity Plug-In Hybrid would find its customers based to its great price (which got greater as Honda piled on incentives to move dormant cars off dealer lots) and spectacular capabilities. I was wrong. Now Honda has pulled the car back to California-only, with customers in other states having to special-order the car. I was lucky Honda initially sold it as a 50-state (including Michigan) car because my 2-year old Clarity PHEV is spectacular. It will be the long-distance counterpart to our MINI Cooper SE city car.

 

[insightman]

In this Automotive News article reporting that MINI is considering allowing non-BMW-owned dealerships to sell their cars, it is revealed that the US sales target for the MINI Cooper SE in 2020 is 2,000 cars. Because the car comes to the US in March, that target is for just 10 months of sales, for a paltry 200 cars/month.

 

[interestedinEV]

In this Automotive News article reporting that MINI is considering allowing non-BMW-owned dealerships to sell their cars, it is revealed that the US sales target for the MINI Cooper SE in 2020 is 2,000 cars. Because the car comes to the US in March, that target is for just 10 months of sales, for a paltry 200 cars/month.

BMW is having this issue to decide if MINI is sub-brand or an independent brand. Like Scion is a sub-brand of Toyota while Lexus is an independent brand. Starting with a BMW dealer makes it easy as the dealer is already familiar with the processes, tools and even people. Using a new dealership (who has no BMW connection) means a lot more effort but possibly exposure to a larger market and more aggressiveness then now. A BMW dealer would rather sell a BMW 7 series @ about $85,000 then a Mini @ about $25000. If MINI wants to a build a brand independent of BMW, they need to do increase number of dealers including in areas where BMW does not have a presence. The buyers do not necessarily overlap. We have had over 5 different MINIs but not one BMW. So bringing in other hungry dealerships who are more tuned into sub $35,000 market is not a bad idea.

However, if they are going to sell 2000 units of MINI SE in a year and they have 121 dealers today. So each dealer has an average of say 16 cars for the whole year. Over 9 months, means that each dealer gets 1-2 per month, which may not fly well among some dealers. In California with the initiatives, the price may come down to $18,000 and I am sure the demand will be more 1-2 a month. That means that dealers somewhere else will be starved of cars. I cannot see it happening any other way. So that reinforces my hypothesis that they will begin in only selected markets before moving to more states.

This raises another question, is this a compliance car that BMW is bringing out? I3 is not much of a starter, is MINI another way to meet the compliance needs? May be it is only me, I am not getting the warm fuzzies about what BMW wants to do with this car. If it is a compliance car, again certain markets are more likely to be preferred.

 

[insightman]

That means that dealers somewhere else will be starved of cars. I cannot see it happening any other way. So that reinforces my hypothesis that they will begin in only selected markets before moving to more states.

This raises another question, is this a compliance car that BMW is bringing out? I3 is not much of a starter, is MINI another way to meet the compliance needs? May be it is only me, I am not getting the warm fuzzies about what BMW wants to do with this car. If it is a compliance car, again certain markets are more likely to be preferred.

Then there are the 78,000 "expressions of interest" in the UK and Europe to satisfy. I wonder how many electric MINIs can they manufacture a year?

BMW could obviously sell 2,000 MINI Cooper SE cars a year in the US at a price higher than $29,990. So the "compliance" aspect is not a factor in the price. If the price was higher, the company could make more money and still achieve any compliance benefits 2,000 cars can provide. The goal of the low price seems to me to be one of (gasp!) affordability. It will be interesting to see what dealers do with the price, should the car prove very popular.

Interestingly, of the 121 MINI dealerships in the US, the single one that is not affiliated with a local BMW dealership is the one 3 miles from my house in Ann Arbor. It is owned by the Germain Automotive Group. That group owns a BMW dealership in Naples, FL, but it is not affiliated with MINI of Ann Arbor. I hope MINI of Ann Arbor follows Germain Honda's practice of not pumping up the price of popular cars. Germain Honda sold the once-rare Honda Civic Type R at MSRP even when the car was in high demand, so I'm optimistic.

I maintain hope that MINI of Ann Arbor can snag one of the MINI Cooper SErs flowing across the country towards the west coast this March.

 

[insightman]

Last week, the saleslady at my local MINI dealer had me come in so she could explain how MINI is handling the limited availability of the MINI Cooper SE. She told me that MINI is importing only 200 2020 MINI Cooper SE cars for March delivery. I replied that I should be high on the list because I placed a $1,000 deposit in October, right? Nope. She told me that MINI had sent her a special URL linked to her dealership that I should use Monday morning (today) to reserve one of the 200.

Fanatic that I am, I started trying to access that site from my laptop over and over, beginning at 12:00:01 this morning. Every time I tried, my browser would be redirected to the MINI USA web page for the MINI Cooper SE, not to the secret reservation form. I stayed up until 3 am, thinking that the New Jersey-based MINI USA meant Monday morning PST. Nope, it still didn't work. I got up every hour after that to retry the special URL but it never worked.

Finally, at 8:30 am, I prepared to visit my MINI saleslady to show her the URL didn't work. So I emailed the URL to my gmail account, which I can access from my cellphone. Inexplicably, the dang thing worked and the reservation form popped up! I quickly entered my information, submitted a $500 deposit via PayPal, and received a confirmation number. Then I tried the URL again on my laptop and again reached the MINI Cooper SE page I'd already seen hundreds of times today. I didn't know there could be a URL that works on a phone, but not on a computer.

I was already dressed in my new birthday-present jeans and a clean shirt, so I drove the 2 miles to the MINI dealer as I'd planned. My saleslady told me that if they took my money and gave me a confirmation number, I was in. However, being in doesn't mean I'm guaranteed to get the color or trim-level I want. MINI USA is importing only 200 cars for delivery in March and they're not waiting for me to say what I want before they build those 200.

My resourceful MINI saleslady will try to get my MINI spec'd the way I want, but I may have to accept a MINI that doesn't include everything I want. If I don't accept what she can offer, I'll have to wait for a MINI arriving sometime after March.

Because the base Signature trim-level is pretty well-equipped, I can be completely flexible on whether I get Signature, Signature Plus (with the nice interior color scheme), or Iconic (with the nice grey leather seats) trim. My wife picked the Moonwalk Grey paint, so that's my only point of inflexibility.

Now for the really strange part of this seemingly endless post. My knowledgeable MINI saleslady told me that only the MINI Cooper SEs arriving in March will be 2020 model year MINIs! The next batch of imports will have been built in 2020, which means MINI can call them 2021s!!! (Who enforces this model-year rule?)

If I don't get a 2020 MINI in March, I'm worried that the California ZEV magnet will yank every one the 2021 electric MINIs all the way to the West Coast, bypassing me in fly-over country. Why, oh why can't Michigan also be a ZEV state? Oh, right, because GM is here and they don't like California setting the emissions standards for the rest of the country.

If you're the other person who visits this BMW sub-forum and you want a 2020 MINI Cooper SE, get down to your local MINI dealer ASAP to obtain one of those secret URLs. Good luck!

Edit: Wouldn't you know it, I just tried the URL linked to MINI of Ann Arbor again from my computer--and it worked this time. Because the reservation page came up, perhaps there are a few of the 200 2020s still available.

 

[insightman]

Well, I paid the price for my unsuccessful 8-hour ordeal trying to access MINI's pre-order website from my computer. Today I learned that by registering at 8:30 am EST I became #199 on the list of 200. Unfortunately, neither of the last two unclaimed 2020 MINI Cooper SEs were painted in the color my wife chose, so I passed on getting a 2020 model in March. Now I will be waiting anxiously to see if my MINI saleslady can snag an acceptably tinted 2021 MINI Cooper SE coming to the US in April before it gets sucked into the California pipeline.