Daytime Driving Light Out?

  • Thread starter Thread starter blinkme323
  • Start date Start date
  • Replies Replies 48
  • Views Views 7K
"I would go as far as to run a new wire from the other side if it was me having to foot the $5K bill."

I had to do that on my 10 year old F150 recently. The oil pressure gage stopped working. Dealer determined there was a loss of continuity in the wire from the sender to the dash. Instead of replacing the wiring harness they piggybacked a new wire from the sending unit up to the dash.
 
If I was faced with a $5K repair bill from a dealer to fix a DRL, I'd be taking it to my local mechanic, have him splice into the other DRL and run power to the other one and call it a day. Do stories like this make me want to buy an extended warranty? Hell no, I never buy them and have never regretted it.
 
Don’t get me wrong...I agree with everyone else and I perform hack repairs all the time on my beater cars. If this were my car and my dollars, and it was out of warranty, and the car was getting old and used up...I’d absolutely ignore Hondas recommendation, splice and dice it and I’d find a way to make the damn light work. I'm also a mechanic.

But this is not that scenario. If it were my car, it was still near-new, and it was still under warranty, and I was offered free warranty repair of a new harness with Honda’s dollars? I’d take it to Honda, get in a Honda paid loaner, and I'd have them fix it with new OEM parts per Honda specs for free.

As simple as armchair quarterbacking such a hack & splice repair on someone else's car is, I still suspect it's gonna require at a bare minimum, removing the entire front bumper cover and spending a solid half-day of wrenching, trouble-shooting, determining best hot source and ground routes, and splicing. And that half-day assumes everything goes well and you know what you're doing. And hopefully when done and the light works again, the radar inside the front bumper is still aligned and reading correctly, you don't have any phantom error codes, you didn't break any plastic clips and tabs in the process, the wire you tapped into has the capacity to handle the extra load it wasn't designed for, and most importantly...next time your car is prepping to slam into something HOPEFULLY the early warning/auto-brake/seatbelt/airbag deployment system still functions as originally designed...
 
Last edited:
I appreciate all of the feedback thus far. I asked what was damaged on the harness and they stated that there was no physical damage, just a short. The mystery continues... but I’ll keep you guys updated.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I appreciate all of the feedback thus far. I asked what was damaged on the harness and they stated that there was no physical damage, just a short. The mystery continues... but I’ll keep you guys updated.
This is one of my pet peeves. It is clear that you do not have a SHORT in the harness.
A short causes excessive current and winds up blowing a fuse. This is an OPEN circuit, either due to a broken wire or a faulty connection.
People who are non-technical tend to call any electrical fault a short...

Sorry, I can't help myself !!
 
It is clear that you do not have a SHORT in the harness.
A short causes excessive current and winds up blowing a fuse. This is an OPEN circuit, either due to a broken wire or a faulty connection.
People who are non-technical tend to call any electrical fault a short...

Spot on. The certified Honda monkey and the service advisor are either too stupid to understand the real problem or they believe you are unable to comprehend basic electricity.

Ask them to explain why the “short” didn’t blow a fuse, and why the other light still works. Perhaps they could show you a schematic, at which point you could show them that both lights are on the same circuit, protected by a single fuse.

The OP has valid concerns if these are the idiots who will be replacing the harness.
 
Well now....

Some of you know that I'm EXTREMELY eager and quick to throw dealership service departments under the bus at every given opportunity, for incompetence, overselling, high prices, etc...as I had a long and sometimes dismal career dealing with them professionally on a VERY regular basis. And they are very often idiots.

Yet even I am not (yet) jumping to any such a far reaching conclusions at this time, based on the usage of a single word.

Because I learned long ago: When a service tech, tells a service writer, who tells a customer, who tells an internet forum...that there is a "short" in a harness which does not actually have a "short"...this does not alone make for an incompetent dealership.

In fact it's just exactly what I would expect to occur during the typical game of telephone. Somewhere in the chain of communication which has passed thru 4 entities, a simple word was thrown out there and/or swapped, and it is frankly meaningless as to why or how.

Plus one of many synonyms for "short" -- is "Deficient". Maybe a literally educated service writer was simply saying "the wire harness has a deficiency in it..." which may or may not satisfy the grammar police and their pet peeves.

So...here is what it seems we know:

1. The dealership did troubleshooting, and has determined the light doesn't work because the wire harness is somehow compromised.
2. The dealership hasn't found any physical/visible damage to the harness.
3. The dealership says the harness needs to be replaced.
4. Honda is agreeing to pay for part and labor of a new harness under warranty.

I have based all of my earlier comments and recommendations in this thread on these being factual statements. Because I simply have no other info to go on.

The only statement I need to change at this time is my initial speculation that the light itself was defective. Apparently I speculated wrong, as I can only assume they tested the obvious, and determined the light is perfectly fine, thus they started troubleshooting the wire harness and found it to be short of electric nuggets.

If more new info comes to light which changes any of the above 4 facts, I might change my mind from my other earlier ideas and recommendations.
 
Last edited:
@blinkme323 -
I was pondering your circumstances and thinking about the possibility that this was caused by rodent damage.
Many of us have found that critters seem to have discovered that the cabin filter area makes an excellent home.

Not that it would identify where the specific wiring problem is, but it would be interesting to know whether rodents have found your cabin filter and made a home there... If so, then the likelyhood that they have been gnawing on your harness increases.

It is quite easy to check your cabin filter. It is behind the glove box.

Here is the thread that discusses this in great detail. There is a video link in the thread that shows you how to access this area. No tools are required.

Cabin Filter Access
 
This is one of my pet peeves. It is clear that you do not have a SHORT in the harness.
A short causes excessive current and winds up blowing a fuse. This is an OPEN circuit, either due to a broken wire or a faulty connection.
People who are non-technical tend to call any electrical fault a short...

Sorry, I can't help myself !!
I agree. It’s quite unlikely that it’s a short. And just FYI, in most cases a short is caused by some sort of physical damage. So the dealer saying no physical damage is probably bogus.
 
FWIW, when I was looking into extended the extended warranty I noticed in the fine print it said lights weren't covered. I asked for clarification.
Q: "The clarity has 'non-replaceable' LED headlights and highbeams. Are these covered by Honda Care? I know it excludes 'lights' "
A: "If they died as a result of something else malfunctioning, then yes they would. "

I read that as saying, if an LED or circuit within the light goes caput you are screwed and Honda won't cover the replacement of the light UNLESS it was caused by something like a voltage spike from the AC/DC converter, etc (which would cause FAR bigger problems.)

I'm an electrical engineer... LED's do just die - FAR more often with cheaper LED's/ improper driver circuits with improper current limiting resistors (or lack thereof), which I hope we don't have to worry about with the Clarity. I was behind a VW today with an LED 3rd brake light that looked like it was at the disco.

I am SURE that was written back when all bulbs were incandescent/ Halogen, but it looks like Honda isn't in a big hurry to revise it.
 
A: "If they died as a result of something else malfunctioning, then yes they would. "

If, as reported, the wiring harness failed (causing the DRL to not come on), then that is clearly not a "light" problem and would certainly be covered (as the OP has found).

Regarding reliability, My own anecdotal experience is that household LED lighting is almost as unreliable as incandescent (or compact fluorescent) bulbs. The reason is not the LED, but the cheap electrolytic capacitors and other electronics used in the driver circuits.

In a vehicle, I think it is likely much more reliable because the driver circuitry is simpler (starting from 12V instead of 120V). On the other hand, the headlight LED's are very bright, and therefore they operate at a higher stress level and generate more heat. They may be more prone to failure than the others.

You are probably right that the wording is from the old days of incandescent. To me, the LED's should be covered because you can't just go into any auto parts dealer and purchase a generic replacement. If they design in a unique part that can only be obtained from Honda, they should stand by that design and cover it.
 
Yeah...lol...so many people think Honda Care coverage and Honda warranty are one-in the same, or that buying Honda Care is the same as extending their bumper-to-bumper warranty. Not true. Two entirely different entities. I interpreted these contracts for a living for a while. They are more customer-oriented today than they once were, but many customers still become disappointed after paying lots of money for these contracts, and then making a claim which is denied.

So yes indeed Honda Care covers a lot and is pretty customer-friendly, but don't be duped by dealers telling you it's the same coverage Honda gives to a 3 year/sub-36,000 mile new car. Also beware their contract wording changes EVERY SINGLE YEAR. So wording from contracts 5 years ago is dramatically different from wording today.

Following is a recent (2019) official list of items that Honda Care WILL NOT COVER after your bumper-to-bumper warranty has expired. (On the plus side for purposes of this discussion...it seems LED light assemblies ARE covered, as are wire harnesses.. Neither are mentioned in the current contract as being excluded. Specifically only NON-LED light assemblies are now excluded):

A. NON-COVERED PARTS, MAINTENANCE ITEMS, AND SERVICES: YOUR VEHICLE is comprised of thousands of parts, many of which are mechanical in nature, and, therefore, eligible for coverage. The following is a listing of non-mechanical and non-electrical parts and common maintenance items, which are specifically excluded from coverage. Any part(s) not excluded below are eligible for coverage in the event of a covered MECHANICAL or ELECTRICAL BREAKDOWN as defined under section “I. KEY TERMS”. 1. Any parts or accessories other than genuine Honda or AMERICAN HONDA authorized parts. 2. Any communication, navigational or audio/video entertainment systems that become unusable or unable to function as intended due to changes in content, technology or wireless service. Damage from improper repair or update to covered components. 3. Frame, body mount bushings, sub frame(s), sub frame mounting bushings, primary body structure/welded assemblies, body sub seals, weather strip, or any seal preventing water intrusion, core support, header panel, grille, hood, fenders, inner fenders, doors, rear hatch, trunk lid, tailgate, spoilers, fascia, air dams, composite panels, bumpers, bumper covers, soft or hard convertible tops, all window glass, sun roof/ moon roof glass, all mirror glass (except for electronic failure of the auto-dimming mirror), all rear or side view mirror housings/frames (except for heated mirror glass failure), and brackets, outside ornamentation, emblems, garnish, moldings, roof ditch moldings, bright metal, chrome trim, stainless trim, paint (except for covered hinges painted to match the original vehicle color), headlamp housings, taillight housings, side marker lamp housings, lenses, bezels, non-LED lighting assemblies, and cosmetic failure on vehicle body or structural damage. 4. Steering wheel, dash panel, dash pad, glove box door, floor or overhead consoles (except dome light failure), door and other interior panels, armrests, seat upholstery, seat padding, headliner, cargo covers/sun shades (except for failure of the retractor mechanism), sun visors (except for the sun visor support and vanity mirror), carpet, floor mats, any sound deadener, underlayment, insulation or water shields, in-vehicle vacuum system filters, canister bags, hoses, and attachments/accessories, door handles, window handles, buttons, knobs, boots, cup holders, gas, brake, and clutch pedal pads. 5. Exhaust system head pipes, mufflers, resonators, tailpipes, hangers, heat shields, gaskets (except for exhaust manifold to cylinder head gasket), and related fastening hardware. 6. All fuel, lubricants, coolants or other fluids, or air conditioning refrigerant unless required as part of a covered MECHANICAL or ELECTRICAL BREAKDOWN (except for services covered under section “II.”, subsection “D”). 7. Fuses, wiper blades, fuel hoses, radiator hoses, heater hoses, vacuum hoses (except for hoses with crimped fittings), spark plugs, spark plug wires, PCV valve, belts, timing belt when replaced as routine maintenance, all filters, including but not limited to oil filters (except for services covered under section “II.”, subsection “D”), air filters, cabin filters, fuel filters, batteries (except for nickel/metal hydride, lithium ion, and polymer lithium ion batteries used in hybrid vehicles), battery cables, clutch disc, pressure plate, throw out bearing, pilot bushing/bearing, disc brake pads, disc brake rotors, brake drums, brake and parking brake shoes. 8. All fastening/securing hardware for non-covered parts/ components – e.g., straps, nuts, bolts, studs, screws, clips, clamps, pins etc. stripped or cross threaded fasteners, and any stripped or cross threaded drain plugs. 9. Airbags deployed for any reason, seat belts except for the seat belt latch sensor (if YOU believe there is a defect in any of these parts, please contact YOUR HONDA DEALER immediately). 10. Tires (except for services covered under section “II.”, subsection “C”), wheels, valve stems, except for electronically failed TPMS sensors, wheel covers, trim rings, center caps, wheel studs, lug nuts, wheel locks. HFAPPGH1019_Rd5.indd 5 5/31/19 9:12 AM American Honda Finance Corporation Page: 6 of 8 HFAPPGH1019 EXAMPLE 11. Alignments of any kind, wheel balancing, valve adjustments or any other adjustments, calibrations, tightening, updates, or reprogramming of any kind, unless required as part of a covered MECHANICAL or ELECTRICAL BREAKDOWN. 12. POWERTRAIN COVERAGE ONLY: Parts not listed in section “II.” subsection “A.2.” of this CONTRACT, including but not limited to parts other than genuine Honda or AMERICAN HONDA authorized parts.
 
Last edited:
Q: "The clarity has 'non-replaceable' LED headlights and highbeams. Are these covered by Honda Care? I know it excludes 'lights' "
A: "If they died as a result of something else malfunctioning, then yes they would. "

Could the above Q&A be explained by the words below?

Any part(s) not excluded below are eligible for coverage in the event of a covered MECHANICAL or ELECTRICAL BREAKDOWN as defined under section “I. KEY TERMS”

While the LED assemblies are not specifically excluded, would their eligibility for inclusion as a covered part only be met if the failure occurred as defined in the plan?
 
Honda Care definition:

“MECHANICAL and ELECTRICAL BREAKDOWN: means the inability of a properly maintained part, covered under this CONTRACT to perform the function for which it was designed due solely to a defect in materials or workmanship. MECHANICAL or ELECTRICAL BREAKDOWN does not mean the gradual reduction in operating performance due to wear and tear.”

And headlights are not excluded because they are LED. Only non Led lights are excluded in the exclusions section. Therefore Clarity headlights are covered by Honda Care if they suffer an “electrical breakdown” and suddenly do not function as designed, due to defect...

That’s pretty much all there is to it.

As for the q&a exchange you quoted? Neither the question nor the answer make any sense frankly, so I can’t speak to what they were talking about.
 
I have to jump in here. I will explain to those who know basic electrical "aka old school ". Modern vehicles, control lights from the body control module "# aka smart computers , " smart fuse boxes etc." that monitor and can disable a circuit that is pulling too many amps". Just so you know " a short does not have to blow a fuse.
Spot on. The certified Honda monkey and the service advisor are either too stupid to understand the real problem or they believe you are unable to comprehend basic electricity.

Ask them to explain why the “short” didn’t blow a fuse, and why the other light still works. Perhaps they could show you a schematic, at which point you could show them that both lights are on the same circuit, protected by a single fuse.

The OP has valid concerns if these are the idiots who will be replacing the harness.

Sent from my SM-N986U using Inside EVs mobile app
 
Modern vehicles, control lights from the body control module "# aka smart computers , " smart fuse boxes etc." that monitor and can disable a circuit that is pulling too many amps". Just so you know " a short does not have to blow a fuse.

In the driver’s side interior fuse box A, fuse #22 (DRL) protects the circuit for the Daytime Running Lights with a 7.5A fuse. The OP has reported that one DRL is operating properly and that the fuses have been checked. This would indicate that the circuit is hot.

There are a total of 7 “dumb fuse boxes” in the Clarity, 3 in the engine compartment and 4 in the interior, on the driver’s side. I believe there are 94 old school fuses in total.
 
In the driver’s side interior fuse box A, fuse #22 (DRL) protects the circuit for the Daytime Running Lights with a 7.5A fuse. The OP has reported that one DRL is operating properly and that the fuses have been checked. This would indicate that the circuit is hot.

There are a total of 7 “dumb fuse boxes” in the Clarity, 3 in the engine compartment and 4 in the interior, on the driver’s side. I believe there are 94 old school fuses in total.
Thank you for your "Clarity" lol. "The certified Honda monkey comment" set me in motion. My only point was "shorts do not have to blow fuses". For example I was speaking about many "modern vehicles" sorry, not Clarity specific. Until the harness is out and can be properly inspected the answer the dealership gave was just speculation and even with the harness out, one wire in a bundle of many may not be obvious. I recently had a new model vehicle with daytime running lamps on all the time with no response from the pushbutton start, no dash response, no audio system response at times. Network testing showed High speed Corporate Area Network 2 was down. Thankfully it was acting up when tested. This knocked out all communications on High speed Corporate Area Network #1 causing every thing to be down. The Daytime running lamps had no fuses and were powered directly by the Body Control Module and by default with no communications, stay on. It was a long drawn out process to locate, but turns out a High speed Corporate Area Network splice heat shrink had a one wire strand poking thru and piercing a ground wire only at times. This was in a harness of about 60 wires and was very difficult to locate. The repair was the easy part.
 
Back
Top