Dashboard power gauge, do I understand it?

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KClark

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I've written several times about my curiosity with constant ICE engaging after months of only EV driving. To better understand everything that goes on I've been reading up in the owner's manual and observing more carefully my own car.

On page 122 of the owner's manual it talks about the power gauge:

View media item 312
So it says, "The curved blue line on the gauge shows the range within which only the electric motor provides propulsion to the wheels. The length of this line varies depending on the drive mode and the remaining power of the High Voltage battery. When the white needle exceeds the curved blue line, the engine starts and the curved blue line turns white." I take this to mean that where the solid blue line meets the dashed blue line is what we call the ICE detent, if the power indicator goes above the solid blue line the ICE starts. I also understand this to mean that if I change from normal mode to Sport or to Eco the length of the dashed line will change. It will also change depending on the amount of charge in the battery. I thought I understood that but maybe I don't.

I ask because as I've been watching my dash more carefully I see the following:

View media item 313
I added the two red lines which bracket the area in my power gauge that is dashed. The thing is, the length of that dashed area never changes, it's the same when I'm in normal, Sport or Eco, it's the same when my battery is at 100% or 10%. Am I misunderstanding this or is something not right?
 
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They are there for me. This is the first time I’ve tried to do a post with photos. Maybe I didn’t do it right. I added them to my media library and then inserted them into the post. Using the media icon. Is there a help page that explains how to insert photos? The whole process wasn’t very intuitive.
 
Doh! I was searching that row of icons above the text box for an insert photo icon. I never noticed that upload file box. Although now I'm wondering what I did that makes the photos visible to me but not to anyone else?

Let's try again, here is the page from the manual:

instrument gauge.webp


I take this to mean that where the solid blue line meets the dashed blue line is what we call the ICE detent, if the power indicator goes above the solid blue line and into the dashed area the ICE starts. I also understand this to mean that if I change from normal mode to Sport or to Eco the length of the dashed line will change. It will also change depending on the amount of charge in the battery. I thought I understood that but maybe I don't.

Here is a photo of my dash with the added red lines that show the dashed area on my power gauge. Like I said, that area does not change, not when I'm in Sport or Econ, not with a full battery or a low battery, not when I'm parked or when I'm driving.

IMG-0230.webp
 
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Both, the dashed area doesn’t change in size or location no matter the drive mode, battery charge, speed. I’ve been carefully watching it for a few days.
 
That’s exactly what mine has been showing for the last year from fully charged down to low charge. As I understand things the white is where the ICE will definitely come on and I assume that’s the click point although I have never actually verified that. I believe that the dashed blue is the maybe zone for the ICE where it may come on depending on what other power loads are in play such as non motive loads of heat, defrost, AC, etc. and there are probably a lot of other factors involved.

I can say that as long as I stay in the solid blue I stay in “virtual EV mode” and stay 100% battery except for the occasional and brief System Checks.
The quotes are for @insightman who correctly reminds us that there is no EV Mode in the Clarity, so there is no mode that will guarantee the ICE will never ever come on.
So I’ve coined the phrase:
Stay in the blue, no ICE for you!

Since I can’t find anything in the manual specifically about the dashed blue area, I am more than happy to be corrected on this. All I found was on p 122 where it say says “If you accelerate aggressively, the engine may start even though the needle has not exceeded the curved blue line.” And that may or may not be talking about the dashed blue area. So I can’t find anywhere Honda tells us exactly what the dashed blue means.
 
Also, on mine, there is no change in the dashed blue line’s size or position in ECON, SPORT, or “Normal” (non ECON and non SPORT, no HV). The only time I see it move is when I select HV. Then it’s size doesn’t change but it shifts way to the right due to the increase in the dashed white area.
This is all normal indicators of normal behavior and I would be very surprised if someone’s Clarity didn’t do this.

What wouldn’t we all give to have a Honda engineer sit down and pull back the curtain of this Oriental Wizard of Oz Mobile for us?
 
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Although it doesn’t specifically talk about the dashed area the part I quoted in the manual does specifically talk about the solid blue line, "The length of this [solid blue] line varies depending on the drive mode and the remaining power of the High Voltage battery." And if the length of the solid blue line varies then the dashed one would have to as well. So the manual clearly states that these lines change depending on drive mode and SOC yet mine and yours don't. And the illustration in the manual clearly shows a much different length of the solid blue line than yours or mine.

I started noticing this because as I've carefully watched my driving over the last week I have never had the power needle go beyond the 12 o'clock position, far away from the end of the blue line on my car but very close to the end of the blue line on the manual illustration. And yet I've had ICE for 12 of the last 14 days on a commute that in the previous 4 months used hardly a drop of gas.

The Clarity is as much high tech gadget as it is automobile. Every tech thing I own has tech support, I really wish there was a Honda tech support to ask questions to.
 
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KentuckyKen said:
The quotes are for @insightman who correctly reminds us that there is no EV Mode in the Clarity, so there is no mode that will guarantee the ICE will never ever come on.
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Mr. Stickler here: You are correct that there is no selectable EV Mode that guarantees the ICE won't ever come on, but there is an EV Drive mode (which I know you, one of the most knowledgeable Clarity forum members, already know).

For those who aren't familiar with the 3 Drive modes, EV Drive mode is one of the Clarity PHEV's 3 underlying Drive modes along with Hybrid Drive mode and Engine Drive mode (some call it "gear mode"). So, rather than "virtual EV Mode" you are using your knowledge and skill to keep your Clarity operating in EV Drive mode.

My primary gripe is people who call ECON Mode "EV Mode"--they aren't the same.
 
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Yep, that one word “Drive” makes all the difference. Keep on keeping us all straight. I really didn’t understand all the nuances of all the modes until your very “insightful” posts. We should take up a collection and send you to Japan to teach them how to rewrite the manual!
 
After reading this thread yesterday, I tried this in my Clarity last night. When I press the buttons to go into Sport or Econ mode, the blue and white lines don't change at all. I have always wondered about the talk that I have heard about them on this site, because I have never seen them change, and have never understood the talk of them changing.
 
Mark W said:
After reading this thread yesterday, I tried this in my Clarity last night. When I press the buttons to go into Sport or Econ mode, the blue and white lines don't change at all. I have always wondered about the talk that I have heard about them on this site, because I have never seen them change, and have never understood the talk of them changing.
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Sport/Normal/Econ doesn't generally change the length of the blue and white sections, what they change is how responsive the accelerator is -- in Econ you can go all the way to the detent while staying within the blue line; in Normal/Sport pressing the accelerator less gets more power (and thus will go into the white triggering the engine before the detent). I'm pretty sure the moving line is absolute power -- being in Econ and pressing your foot to the detent gives the car the exact same acceleration rate as being in Sport or Normal and pressing your foot less but just to where the power gauge line is at the same place.

The length of the blue/white does change when you go into HV mode or the battery is low (less or no blue, more white) -- and when descending a mountain grade once with a lot of regeneration I saw it go up by one mark (more blue, less white), but I can't explain how to recreate that.

And to the OP's question; I'm betting the dashed part of the blue/white is just an artistic artifact and doesn't have any meaning beyond "you're close to the edge"
 
These are my observations of the power indicator:

The length of the dashed part of the blue line never varies. There are always as many hash marks above the top of the solid blue line regardless of how long the solid blue line is.

The blue line, including the hash marks, is a power level that will keep the drive mode in EV. If you are calling for more power than the top of the blue hash marks, the engine will start and provide the additional power you are requesting with your foot pressing on the accelerator.

When either selecting HV mode with the button, or having depleted the high voltage battery down to zero EV miles, the top of the blue line retreats counter clockwise around the dial. If the engine is running, the blue bar disappears completely. If the power required to move the car is low enough, even with HV selected with the button, the car will at times swap back to EV mode and the blue bar will reappear, albeit with a top of the bar well below the 1:30 position (as noted in the photo previously posted). It might be at the 10 o'clock position or the 11:30 position. If in selected HV mode or having zero EV miles showing, the top of the blue bar, including hash marks, will move counter clockwise as the car uses battery power only and "EV" will be displayed below the transmission selection on the dash display. So, even though you might have selected HV mode with the button, the car will, at times, go back to EV mode by itself.

Even when in HV mode, the car will, at times, charge the battery while using direct drive (gear) mode. At a speed above approximately 55 MPH (my observation), on a level road, the transmission might go into "gear mode". At and above some predetermined cross over point, because the engine is turning at a speed to drive the wheels at the the speed you are trying to maintain, the engine generator is adding to the motive power, but is also generating more power than is need to move the car. That excess power is put back into the high voltage battery.

Again, these are my observations and interpretations of what the Clarity's power meter is telling me.
 
JCA said:
The length of the blue/white does change when you go into HV mode or the battery is low (less or no blue, more white) -- and when descending a mountain grade once with a lot of regeneration I saw it go up by one mark (more blue, less white), but I can't explain how to recreate that.
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I think this can be easily explained. Here is how I think of the high voltage battery in the Clarity.

Think of the high voltage battery as being two separate batteries. The "top" 15 kWs are used for driving exclusively in EV mode, presuming you haven't selected another mode with the buttons above the transmission selector. The "bottom" two kWs are the hybrid vehicle battery. Remember, any hybrid car has a battery to collect, store, and return energy to the car as motive power. This is the Hybrid Vehicle battery, or the bottom two kW of the high voltage battery. Thinking of the whole battery in this way, it is easy to understand what the power meter is telling us.

When you have EV miles showing, you are seeing the EV miles drop as you drive, but they will also increase when going down hill or braking to a stop. I've seen the EV miles increase as much as 8 tenths of a mile when stopping from 55 MPH down to zero. But when you get to zero EV miles and the car is in "normal" mode with the engine running, you will not see the EV miles change. However, the state of charge on the "bottom" portion of the battery will vary depending upon what you are doing. Just like when in EV mode, when you are going down hill or braking to a stop, electricity is being put back into the high voltage battery.

So, watching the blue bar go up or down when the EV mileage is zero but the car is operating in EV mode, the movement of the blue bar is showing you the state of charge of the battery below the two bars on the battery meter.
 
Tailwind said:
These are my observations of the power indicator:

The length of the dashed part of the blue line never varies. There are always as many hash marks above the top of the solid blue line regardless of how long the solid blue line is.

The blue line, including the hash marks, is a power level that will keep the drive mode in EV. If you are calling for more power than the top of the blue hash marks, the engine will start and provide the additional power you are requesting with your foot pressing on the accelerator.

When either selecting HV mode with the button, or having depleted the high voltage battery down to zero EV miles, the top of the blue line retreats counter clockwise around the dial. If the engine is running, the blue bar disappears completely. If the power required to move the car is low enough, even with HV selected with the button, the car will at times swap back to EV mode and the blue bar will reappear, albeit with a top of the bar well below the 1:30 position (as noted in the photo previously posted). It might be at the 10 o'clock position or the 11:30 position. If in selected HV mode or having zero EV miles showing, the top of the blue bar, including hash marks, will move counter clockwise as the car uses battery power only and "EV" will be displayed below the transmission selection on the dash display. So, even though you might have selected HV mode with the button, the car will, at times, go back to EV mode by itself.

Even when in HV mode, the car will, at times, charge the battery while using direct drive (gear) mode. At a speed above approximately 55 MPH (my observation), on a level road, the transmission might go into "gear mode". At and above some predetermined cross over point, because the engine is turning at a speed to drive the wheels at the the speed you are trying to maintain, the engine generator is adding to the motive power, but is also generating more power than is need to move the car. That excess power is put back into the high voltage battery.

Again, these are my observations and interpretations of what the Clarity's power meter is telling me.
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What you are describing in HV mode is the algorithm attempting to deliver the best efficiency/economy possible by cycling through every possible energy flow. That is exactly what I see my wonderful Clarity doing on the few HV trips I’ve been on and it has given me 48 mpg in quiet, roomy, near luxurious comfort with no angry bees and no loss of power.

IMHO, the secret is to press the HV button at the start of the trip while you still have a good amount of charge which avoids the angry bees and possible power problems a few have posted on. Although I guess if you’re lightly loaded, not going up steep hills, and not going at excessive speeds you can probably get away with letting the SOC go down to 2 bars/0 EV. I have tried that as an experiment once on rolling hills, no passengers, and speeds of 55-60 mph and it worked fine. I am not going to try it with heavy loads, steep hills, and high speeds when a simple, single button push will let me avoid all the possible drama. Just my 2 cents.
 
KentuckyKen said:
....it has given me 48 mpg........
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Ken, are you the one who installed a run meter on your engine? Absent that, how did you calculate 48 mpg? I have found no way to determine how much of any drive is HV and how much is EV so I could do a reliable mpg calculation.
 
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