continuously variable automatic

[KentuckyKen]

Since this is a brand new model with lots of brand new tech and hardware, we early adopters are basically unpaid beta testers for Honda.
This is why I justified $1,304 for an 8 yr warranty and I never buy extended warranties.

 

[jdonalds]

Did you see the part where I said my Gen 1 insight clutch in the CVT wore out at 80,000 mi? That does not seem all that fantastic to me. Multi-plate clutch and the friction surfaces were down to .03".

I had expected that Honda had the technical prowess to do speed matching, and I had suspected that they do, but I have seen no reference material for it. If you have a citation that you can add so I can see the technical details, I would very much appreciate a link.

Again, I rarely use HV mode so in the end, I decided that it was not worth worrying about, but having also owned a Gen 3 Prius and having admired the absolute beauty of the dual motor e-CVT design, I keep wishing that Honda had eliminated the need for a friction clutch. Gen 3 Prius transmissions are going 350,000 mi in taxi duty with no transmission failures. Now that is what I call reliable.

(And while I say I rarely use HV mode, I took a 2000 mile trip in my Clarity two months ago and with 3000 miles on the car, more miles were put on it in HV mode than in EV mode, and I must have seen that clutch icon come on a couple of hundred times on that trip. That is a lot of clutch engagements. At home though I never use EV mode and have been on the same tank of gas as I ended the 2000 mile trip with).

I'm not familiar with the Insight CVT. What kind of CVT is it. It may be quite different than the clutch in the Clarity which really isn't a CVT at all but rather does do speed matching and only then engages the clutch. It's either connected to the wheels or not; no slipping or belts etc.

 

[insightman]

Did you see the part where I said my Gen 1 insight clutch in the CVT wore out at 80,000 mi? That does not seem all that fantastic to me. Multi-plate clutch and the friction surfaces were down to .03".

I had expected that Honda had the technical prowess to do speed matching, and I had suspected that they do, but I have seen no reference material for it. If you have a citation that you can add so I can see the technical details, I would very much appreciate a link.

I'm sorry to hear your Insight's CVT start-clutch didn't last the life of the car (many do). I never experienced that problem because my 2000 Insight and my current 2006 Insight both had the manual transmission/clutch, which never presented any problems for me. I wanted the manual transmission because it provides greater gas mileage than the CVT gen-1 Insight (even though the "lean-burn technology" that enables the increased gas mileage on manual Insights produces dirtier emissions).

I must admit I don't have any technical documentation to back up my blind faith that the Clarity's computer-controlled Engine Drive clutch will prove to be reliable. My faith is based on advances in technology, the assumption a wet clutch is more reliable, and the relatively easy job the Clarity's Engine Drive clutch has to perform.

The Insight's CVT start-clutch has to get the car rolling from a dead stop but the Clarity's Engine Drive clutch never has to perform such a stressful task. The operation of the Clarity's Engine Drive clutch is so smooth that I cannot detect its engagement when I'm driving--the only tip-off (other than the appearance of the gear icon), is that the engine speed becomes proportional to the road speed. That smooth operation makes me believe the i-MMD system is matching the engine's revs to the road speed before engaging the clutch.

 

[iluvscuba]

Ab

Absolutely! It’s one of the best things about EV cars and is one of the reasons why traditional dealers hate them since they make most of their money off the service dept. We have no real tranny with all it’s parts or even a conventional CVT which has less parts to fail but also costs more to repair. Factor in no fan belts, no power steering pump or fluid, and a gas engine that runs much less of the time and we can reasonably expect much lower maintenance costs. However, I think your concern about the high tech and electronics is valid especially since the Clarity has no track record. That’s why I bought an extended warranty for the first time.

This may be true in the US but in Canada with the 10000km/6000miles/8 months oil charge/brake service, the local dealer charges $200+tax for it so it is actually more expensive than my old gas car doing 2 oil changes every year. This is also my first car that I bought extended warranty for the same reason you mentioned.

 

[Fast Eddie B]

A bit off topic, I know, but about Honda clutches...

Our 2005 Element with MT has been the best/most reliable car we’ve ever owned.

But the one major repair was clutch-related. Pulled up to a stop and could not get the car into any gear from neutral. Towed to a dealer. The problem was a small metal tab had fractured and fallen, jamming things up:

You can see the tab missing on the top spring.

Total bill was close to $1,500.

Good news is since that repair, no other major issues and just turned 204,000 miles.

 

[Atkinson]

The Clarity clutch might have issues down the road, but not due to wear.
It isn't used for starting the car from a stop.
It simply couples and decouples the generator and motor.
If you can't feel the lock and unlock, then there are no torque forces applied.
The drivetrain computer has matched revs for a seamless and transparent transition.
Honda could have used the clutch to do this, but it would make the lockups noticeable and tedious to endure.
Honda usually does a good job with QA.
Keep in mind we have the last generation (GenII) Accord hybrid powertrain, not the newest (GenIII) - so there are more miles under this design.
There are a lot of hybrid powertrain parts that could fail at some point with this level of complexity, but that's what an emissions warranty is for on these cars.
15 years 150k miles in CA emissions states and 8 years 100K in Federal emissions states (there are a number of exceptions to Fed emissions)