Consumer Reports Testing

[AlanSqB]

Yeah, it's called the comments section. Highly valued hot takes and thoughtful commentary can be found there

 

[CaryLyn]

Let me first say that most people read the magazine and do not have the online subscription which goes into more detail about the Clarity. So what I add to this discussion based on the more detailed analysis might not affect decision making since few read it. Regardless, this is some of what was covered.
4/5 Acceleration: It is pretty quick: 0-30mph 3.5sec, 0-60mph 8.3sec, 45-65mph 5.2sec.
3/5 Routine Handling and 3/5 Emergency Handling: "sluggish steering and prounced body lean make it feel rather clumsy while going around corners." "wide 40-foot turning circle" but "commendable 53mph through our avoidance maneuver."
3/5 Braking: Braking from 60mph (dry) 141ft, (wet) 145ft. "brake pedel felt grabby."
3/5 Headlights: "pleasing to drive behind" "They do a good job of lighting the road, and a very good job of illuminating the side of the road." Seriously, they raved about the headlights, but gave a 3/5. (Huh?)
4/5 Ride: "absorbs most bumps"
3/5 Noise: Quiet in electric mode, with the engine "a intrusive, monotonous, and gravelly hum."
3/5 Driving Position: "plenty of headroom, well placed footrest and kneeroom." but taller people "feel they are sitting on the car rather than in it" and "Many drivers complained about the inability to sufficiently raise the bottom cushion's front edge."
3/5 Front Seat: "basic" without many adjustments including lumbar support. Easy to get in and out of.
4/5 Back Seat: "ample room...but headroom is snug for taller passengers."
2/5 Controls and Display: "frustrating" "lacks knob and physical buttons" "screen is a far reach for most drivers" "multiple steps for common tasks" "awkward gear selector" "hard to differentiate between the audio function controls and the infomation display controls on the steering wheel"
4/5 Interior Fit and Finish:"well assembled and looks elegant"
4/5 Trunck/Cargo Area: Can hold quite a bit, but isn't flat and has a small pass through. Cheap material in the trunk.
5/5 Climate System: mentioned heated seats and the climate feature on HondaLink.
Fuel Economy: There isn't a score, but they wrote that the Clarity would use 310 gallons a year (based on 12,000annual miles). They figured all the miles would be on the gasoline engine that, according to them, gets 38mpg. While figuring out the Volt, they used the 105MPGe. Prius Prime they used 69MPGe. I'm writing to them to let them know about this error.
They don't have enough data to determine Owner satisfaction (4/5) or Reliability (3/5), but "Our extensive survey data, combined with our technical knowledge, allows us to expertly predict the reliability of new and redesigned models." Yet Prius Prime, also not enough data so they are predicting, gets 5/5 on both Owner Satisfaction and Reliability. Hmm.
Hopefully this helps explain the summary that was in the magazine a little better.

 

[jdonalds]

I see your points and understand what you're saying. But, there is no question the Clarity does not have a conventional continuously variable transmission that connects the engine to the wheels via variable pulleys with belts/chains, like most other new cars have now. Those reading Consumer Reports will think it does because they left out that all important little "e" in their description of the drivetrain. The Clarity's drive modes are important to potential buyers and are relevant to several criticisms CR had of the car. Since Honda has called the drive train an eCVT, so should Consumer Reports; it's not just semantics, so to speak.

I think your description is accurate. I see a CVT as undesirable because most are belt driven. I've rejected buying certain cars because they have a belt driven CVT which I consider less reliable.

Prius has an eCVT in their brilliant Synergy drive which did not use belts. But the Prius does vary the ratio between the ICE and the wheels by using an electric motor as the variable. But the Clarity has no such mechanism in the electric motor path nor in the ICE path. The Clarity has neither a belt driven CVT nor a planetary gear set (like the Prius).

- When in electric drive only mode the electric motor is directly connected to the wheels where the speed of the motor is the variable. There is no ratio modifer. No Variable transmission components.

- When in electric drive only mode the ICE may be running or not. If the ICE is running it is powering the alternator (second motor) to send power to the electric motor and/or the battery. Again no variable transmission of any kind is present. Only the speed of the ICE varies depending on the power needed. If the speed of the ICE, in RPMs, is high some have identified that as the angry bee sound.

- When the ICE clutch is engaged, at higher freeway speeds, it connects the ICE to the wheels in parallel with the electric motor. Again there is no variable transmission, only the speed (RPMs) of the ICE and electric motor are in play.

I take issue with Honda even calling this an eCVT. From my point of view there is nothing worthy of being labeled a CVT or eCVT in the Clarity. It only serves to add confusion to the topic and weakens the perception of the vehicle. I know some people don't like the mismatch between the ground speed of the Prius and the sound of the engine. It never bothered me because I just figured the car was doing it's best to maximize fuel consumption. I had a friend who purchased a used Prius and asked me to drive it. He thought there was something wrong due to the eCVT nature of the Prius.

 

[ab13]

Electric variator is the term I have seen thrown around in some tech papers, hence the term eCVT some use. As you say, every company's design is a bit different, and I haven't looked into each in any detail beyond a high level understanding.

It would be nice to see the patents on it, anyone have them? Or maybe SAE paper?

In the "power split" thread, I posted links to 3 of the earlier patents on this hybrid design. You can see the full PDF, but you may have to have Adobe Flash I think, because it doesn't seem to work on a mobile device.

https://insideevsforum.com/community/index.php?threads/honda-clarity-power-split.418/#post-4290

 

[insightman]

I'll admit I prefer hearing a car's engine speed vary proportionally to the road speed. I grimace when CVT in our 2010 Insight forces the engine to high revs to achieve a small increase in speed. However, the few times our Clarity engine has started it has been so quiet that I usually realized it was running from the energy display on the dashboard. I'm sure it must have started a few times without me realizing it.

Here's my take on the eCVT:

The Clarity's traction motor is always connected to the differential and, in turn, the wheels. Whatever power it needs to respond to the accelerator comes from the battery and, if necessary, the engine-powered starter motor/generator, too. If the battery charge is depleted, then the engine needs more revs to provide more of the electricity required by the traction motor (sometimes unleashing the angry bees).

The Clarity's powertrain combination provides a smooth, continuously variable power curve, much like a conventional CVT or a full EV with a single-speed transmission--as opposed to a transmission with a set of gears that each provide their own discrete ratio, resulting in a stepped (non-continuous) power curve. EV makers don't say they have a CVT or eCVT, but Honda decided to say the Clarity (and Accord Hybrids beginning in 2013, and 2019 Insight) has an eCVT to differentiate the way those i-MMD cars work from cars with multi-speed gearboxes.

When the Clarity's clutch engages, however, the engine speed at last varies proportionally to the road speed because the engine bypasses the magic eCVT to drive the differential and, in turn, the wheels through what is essentially a single-speed gearbox.

 

[DaleL]

I quit paying attention to Consumer's Reports many years ago. Just because the magazine and Consumer's Union do not accept advertising does not make them unbiased. They certainly demonstrated that with their Tesla S review in which they gave the car an impossible 105 before revising their scoring system. Still a "100" score would seem to indicate a "perfect" car. As others have posted, the narrative and raw scores frequently do not match the rating that they give.

Consumer's Reports typically purchases just a single car to test. Many of the items which they consider a problem, such as the push button drive selection or the infotainment system, are only an issue during the familiarization period. (I traded a 2017 Honda Civic Hatch for my Clarity Touring. I actually like it that it has the same infotainment system as the Civic.)

CR's reliability survey is not statistically accurate for most vehicles and should be regarded skeptically.

The Clarity is a largish family sedan. It should be compared with other family sedans.

That written, I love my Clarity.

 

[K8QM]

3/5 Noise: Quiet in electric mode, with the engine "a intrusive, monotonous, and gravelly hum."

I wonder if they put it in HV charge mode and counted that as normal operation - it's reasonably obnoxious if in that mode for very long.

geo

 

[ab13]

That paper predates Honda's i-MMD 2-motor hybrid system. It refers instead to my Insight with its single-motor Integrated Motor Assist (IMA) "mild" hybrid system.

I found a new link to the paper where I've learned the most about the i-MMD system:
www.mdpi.com/2032-6653/6/2/325/pdf

Here is one of the cutaway engine views. I guess it's the Accord Hybrid (2014). The gear from the traction motor is cutaway, so you can see the inner concentric shaft that goes to the generator. The gear over the clutch is removed also, so you get a view of the other gear being driven by the motor that leads to the wheels.

 

[DaleL]

One issue which I have not encountered is engine noise. The only time the engine in my Clarity is noticeable is during hard acceleration when the engine is directly coupled to the drive train. During regular HV mode, such as 75 mph highway driving, my engine cannot be heard. There is no audible difference at 75 mph between EV operation and when the ICE is running. My experience is what I expected based on several car reviews that I read before I test drove one. My Clarity was manufactured in March 2018. Perhaps CR got a defective vehicle. (or they don't really know what they are doing.)

 

[jdonalds]

One issue which I have not encountered is engine noise. The only time the engine in my Clarity is noticeable is during hard acceleration when the engine is directly coupled to the drive train. During regular HV mode, such as 75 mph highway driving, my engine cannot be heard. There is no audible difference at 75 mph between EV operation and when the ICE is running. My experience is what I expected based on several car reviews that I read before I test drove one. My Clarity was manufactured in March 2018. Perhaps CR got a defective vehicle. (or they don't really know what they are doing.)

That's pretty much my experience. Normally when I think the engine might be running I have to start up the graphic on the touch screen to see if it is running. It is not only very quiet but I can't tell when the ICE starts. I know it is turning on and off when we are on a long trip on the freeway in HV mode but there is no sound, or any kind of feeling associated with the engine turning on and off.

The more I look at the range of electric or partial electric cars on the market today the more convinced I am that the Clarity is the perfect car for us. The only downside is the complexity of having to include a gas engine. However that gas engine, coupled with the 17kW battery, is ideal for us. We drive 100% on battery around town, then take to the road with no range anxiety for long trips.

When I look at BEV cars they just wouldn't fit our needs. Those cars have much bigger batteries which would add very little to our driving experience. The only advantage would be they wouldn't have to be charged every time we pull into the garage. But even that is just not a bother. It takes us less than 10 seconds to plug in. On the other hand the BEV wouldn't suit our needs for long trips where we'd have to search for charge stations, pay high fees for electricity, and wait for long battery charge times. So from my perspective BEV cars have batteries that are too large for our needs.

I very much look forward to new cars with under 15 minute charge times, higher density, and longer life batteries. At that point a full BEV would be great.

As for the Consumer Reports review I think there are several things wrong with it. I've watched some of the CR Youtube videos and I just don't think that crew represents consumers as they once did. If you want real information it is available on forums such as insideev.

 

[altfuelcarguy]

CR has demonstrated a bias toward larger, heavier vehicles for years. Recently, they have disseminated a good deal of misinformation about EVs, all of it tending to discourage readers from considering these cars. I sent CR a detailed letter with citations describing my observations, and never received so much as an acknowledgment that they received it. I cancelled my subscription, to say the least.

 

[Sandroad]

Per my post #12 about emailing CR, I received a very thoughtful and fairly extensive reply from them to the concerns I expressed after their print report on the Clarity came out. Although I don't expect further followup from them, they did send my email on to the testing engineers. I do think they provide some very valuable insight on cars they test, but I recognize it's a daunting task because of the astounding range of vehicles on the market now. I will certainly continue to use CR as one of several sources of info.