At the beginning stage here. I'm looking to replace my ICE with either a fully electric, or a PHEV. The fully EV is intriguing. I have done some research and am considering the Hyundai Kona EV, Nissan Leaf plus or the Toyota Prius Prime. If I go fully EV, I want a decent range (at least 200 + miles). My biggest reservation with the EV's is diminished returns with range in the winter months (we never know what we're going to get in New England). Granted, most of my drives are under 25 miles (occasionally longer), but I do have family about 100 miles away. If this is my only moderate reservation, is this valid? I do love the idea of an EV! I also like that Hyundai offers the lifetime warranty on the battery for the 2019 Kona. I'd like to hear peoples experiences who have ditched their ICE for an EV. Oh, almost forgot- I did test ride a Leaf Plus as well as a Kona. Both faired well. Honestly no major differences ( to me) as to how they drove/handled. I found both very enjoyable. I might have considered a Tesla, but unfortunately, price does play into this. The tax credits are still pretty good for the Leaf Plus and Kona...that certainly helps. Thank you!
Considering an EV
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Fastnf
Well-Known Member
The Kona is my first EV and I am very happy with it. My previous car is my 2006 Volvo s60. I have driven the Volvo once in the five months since I leased the Kona. When I drove the Volvo which was last week I was surprised, while the Volvo is a very nice car and it is in excellent condition, I missed a lot of the features that the Kona has but the Volvo doesn't. Lane keeping assist, auto dimming head lights etc.... I live in the mountains of southern California so its not as cold as New England but it can be in the teens at night and occasionally below freezing in the days though typical is mid 40's F during the day time. I haven't notice significant range drop. Hills are more my concern. Definitely use more going up but still has never been a problem. Typically get around 270 miles per charge at freeway speeds. If I drive under 50 miles per hour it goes up over 300miles/charge.
I have done one 2000 mile road trip up to Oregon and back with rain and hills and had no problems finding quick chargers along the way. Averaged about 200 miles between charging with plenty of range to spare. I don't think you would have any problems with a 200 mile round trip on single charge and if you want stop for a 20 minute top up at a quick charge and add 100 miles
I looked on plug share https://www.plugshare.com and New England seams to have a reasonable network of quick charging stations.
I also considered the Leaf but am glad I decided on the Kona. I have the limited model and am quite happy with it.
I have done one 2000 mile road trip up to Oregon and back with rain and hills and had no problems finding quick chargers along the way. Averaged about 200 miles between charging with plenty of range to spare. I don't think you would have any problems with a 200 mile round trip on single charge and if you want stop for a 20 minute top up at a quick charge and add 100 miles
I looked on plug share https://www.plugshare.com and New England seams to have a reasonable network of quick charging stations.
I also considered the Leaf but am glad I decided on the Kona. I have the limited model and am quite happy with it.
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nigels
Active Member
Good plan!
I live in New England and made the switch from ICE to EV in May this year. I love almost everything about my Kona Electric. I'd kept mileage logs for my ICE vehicle and averaged 37 miles a day. So I figured that the 258 mile range of the Kona would mean a once a week recharge. Over the summer I was seeing 320+ miles of estimated range, far more than the EPA number, and the seemed to be borne out after some long drives. Now that the weather is getting colder, the range is dropping because I'm using the heating system. My range at an 80% charge is around 220-230 miles. For your 200 mile round trip, that would be cutting things close and you'd need to find a place with a DC fast charger to recharge. Also bear in mind that the estimated range calculated by the car doesn't take into account hills or headwinds that can seriously reduce range. That applies to all EVs, though I think Tesla has much more sophisticated route-based power estimation. Travel in an EV requires more planning than in an ICE vehicle. You need to know where the charging stations are, and what type of chargers there are, and whether they're working or available. The public charging stations I want to use (train stations, parking garages) in my area are almost usually in use by Teslas or being used as parking spots by ICE vehicles. And then there's our neighboring state of NH which is a big black hole in terms of charging infrastructure. Tesla has the home field advantage over everyone else because of their supercharger network.
I'm fortunate that my Kona isn't my only car, so for a long drive I can drive my ICE car instead. The problem is that I love driving my Kona so much that I want to drive it everywhere! I don't miss the Audi Q5 it replaced in any way at all. The Kona is an upgrade is every single category.
Without the more efficient heat pump heating system our Canadian cousins have, range in the Kona isn't going to be great when the weather gets seriously cold in New England, and I would imagine that cold weather will put even more demand on scarce charging infrastructure. On the other hand, if your long distance driving is almost always is in the milder weather, range anxiety shouldn't be an issue, and you normal daily needs would be well-handled by any EV.
I live in New England and made the switch from ICE to EV in May this year. I love almost everything about my Kona Electric. I'd kept mileage logs for my ICE vehicle and averaged 37 miles a day. So I figured that the 258 mile range of the Kona would mean a once a week recharge. Over the summer I was seeing 320+ miles of estimated range, far more than the EPA number, and the seemed to be borne out after some long drives. Now that the weather is getting colder, the range is dropping because I'm using the heating system. My range at an 80% charge is around 220-230 miles. For your 200 mile round trip, that would be cutting things close and you'd need to find a place with a DC fast charger to recharge. Also bear in mind that the estimated range calculated by the car doesn't take into account hills or headwinds that can seriously reduce range. That applies to all EVs, though I think Tesla has much more sophisticated route-based power estimation. Travel in an EV requires more planning than in an ICE vehicle. You need to know where the charging stations are, and what type of chargers there are, and whether they're working or available. The public charging stations I want to use (train stations, parking garages) in my area are almost usually in use by Teslas or being used as parking spots by ICE vehicles. And then there's our neighboring state of NH which is a big black hole in terms of charging infrastructure. Tesla has the home field advantage over everyone else because of their supercharger network.
I'm fortunate that my Kona isn't my only car, so for a long drive I can drive my ICE car instead. The problem is that I love driving my Kona so much that I want to drive it everywhere! I don't miss the Audi Q5 it replaced in any way at all. The Kona is an upgrade is every single category.
Without the more efficient heat pump heating system our Canadian cousins have, range in the Kona isn't going to be great when the weather gets seriously cold in New England, and I would imagine that cold weather will put even more demand on scarce charging infrastructure. On the other hand, if your long distance driving is almost always is in the milder weather, range anxiety shouldn't be an issue, and you normal daily needs would be well-handled by any EV.
ericy
Well-Known Member
I have only had the Kona gor a month, and I am quite happy.
The Leaf has battery issues if you want to take long trips, especially in warm weather. Lookup "rapidgate". Essentially the leaf uses air cooled batteries. Everyone else uses circulated water/glycol to regulate battery temperature.
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Wow, I'm impressed! Great forum! Very thoughtful and helpful responses(every one of them). I'm going to unload my older BMW X5, then visit more dealers. I'm in Massachusetts and there is no shortage of dealers around. Hopefullly this will be to my advantage. I have already checked inventory and there seems to be a good number of Kona Limiteds in stock. I'm curious about negotiating a deal with the EV's. Initially, I thought no, but if I am considering a 2019 and they are in relative abundance- what do you think?
Fastnf
Well-Known Member
Yes you can negotiate a deal you just have to find the right dealer and be persistent. Even last year when dealers were marking up over MSRP you could still find dealers that were willing to negotiate downward. In my case I didn't need the car so I was willing to push back and walk away from bad deals. They eventually came around.
I've had my Kona since March, before that I leased a Soul EV (great car!) and before that I had the Mitsubishi i-Miev for five years. Before I got the Kona I had a second car, but no more! Having an ev as your only car does require planning, but you should do fine in Mass. The Turnpike is pretty well covered. I've used the charging stations in Lee, Westfield and West Springfield and didn't have a problem at any of them. Make sure you check plugshare before leaving for any long drive and you should be fine. You will lose range in winter because the battery doesn't like cold weather, you'll be using the heater, and days are shorter so more usage of headlights. Also wind is definitely a factor at high speeds on open roads. But the problem is not the cars, its the infrastructure. it is slowly getting better though. If you have a little adventure in your soul and like planning/mapping you'll do great.
Between the Kona and the Leaf, I recommend the Kona. Chademo is going to lose to CCS, and frankly Nissan has lost its commitment to ev's, while Hyundai/Kia seem to be all in. Good luck with your decision!
Between the Kona and the Leaf, I recommend the Kona. Chademo is going to lose to CCS, and frankly Nissan has lost its commitment to ev's, while Hyundai/Kia seem to be all in. Good luck with your decision!
FloridaSun
Well-Known Member
I agree with what others said.. in your situation, even during a cold winter day, you should be able to make the 200 mile round trip with a quick 20 minute charge at a fast charger. My Kona is my first EV and I have gone on road trips with it. Easily made 215 miles on one charge each way.. I'm so happy that soon, we will be a 2 EV family as I convinced my wife to get an EV as her next car..
ericy
Well-Known Member
I regularly make 150 mile one-way trips (with no stops), and I can easily do more. There is a lot of discussion about what works best to preserve battery longevity - some of this is based on experiences of people with other EVs, so it might not be valid for the Kona. Best practices, if you will. Part of it is to avoid charging to 100% unless you need it. And there are best practices to using DCFC as well - typically never charge above 80% because of charge tapering.
I have my own EVSE on one end, and I found a free 50kW DCFC for the other end. That basically fulfills my needs.
Figuring out how to use the heat without sacrificing a lot of range is one thing one needs to adapt to. Still working on that one myself. On the EVSE end, I can configure the car to pre-warm while still plugged in.
FloridaSun
Well-Known Member
I personally usually keep my charge between 60 and 80 percent for the majority of time. I fast charge about 2 to 3 times per month...
The 2019 Kona is the ONLY EV with a lifetime battery warranty, so, even if the battery goes bad or below 70%, I will get a replacement.
interestedinEV
Well-Known Member
You are doing the right things, asking the right questions, taking a test drive etc.
You have a 25 mile commute on a regular basis and occasional 100 mile commute. Are there public chargers near 100 mile commute. Remember if you drive 100 miles, you have to either recharge there or have enough range to make it back 100 miles. If all you have is a 200 mile range and there are no charging stations, then you have a challenge with a Leaf and the Kona. So you may want to see what your charging options? How do you plan to charge at home, where else do you normally travel and what are the charging options there? Can you charge in your family's house?
Do you have an ICE backup if you have to travel in winter conditions? Do you need an all wheel drive?
Does this vehicle meet your carrying requirements? Both Kona and the Leaf are fairly small. You would have noticed that during your test drive.
Is there a dealer near you who can service it, even if you buy it out of state. Kona is not sold in my state of Arizona and dealers may provide warranty under the best effort basis.
You have a 25 mile commute on a regular basis and occasional 100 mile commute. Are there public chargers near 100 mile commute. Remember if you drive 100 miles, you have to either recharge there or have enough range to make it back 100 miles. If all you have is a 200 mile range and there are no charging stations, then you have a challenge with a Leaf and the Kona. So you may want to see what your charging options? How do you plan to charge at home, where else do you normally travel and what are the charging options there? Can you charge in your family's house?
Do you have an ICE backup if you have to travel in winter conditions? Do you need an all wheel drive?
Does this vehicle meet your carrying requirements? Both Kona and the Leaf are fairly small. You would have noticed that during your test drive.
Is there a dealer near you who can service it, even if you buy it out of state. Kona is not sold in my state of Arizona and dealers may provide warranty under the best effort basis.
Pushmi-Pullyu
Well-Known Member
Definitely go with the Kona, or its twin, the Kia Niro. If you buy a Leaf, even a Leaf-e, you'll probably regret it unless it's a fairly short-term lease. And even then, the limitation on repeated fast-charging during a single trip may be a serious issue if you're planning on traveling 200+ miles on a semi-regular basis. Check out the PlugShare website; it's a BEV owner's best friend for recharging during road trips.
Not having a liquid-cooled battery pack in a BEV just sucks, and it's amazing that Nissan has stuck to that inferior tech for so many years with the Leaf. Among other faults, it gives the car a lousy resale value.
You are entirely correct to say that if you go full BEV, you need a decent range, like 200+ EPA rated miles. Worst-case scenario, you may lose as much as 40% range in bitterly cold weather. But plan ahead, learn how to program the car for pre-warming while charging on cold winter mornings, and you should be able to take those long trips, hopefully with no worse than 20-25% range loss.
Do yourself a favor and just forget about the short-EV-ranged Prius Prime PHEV. Once you get used to driving on electricity, you won't ever want to have to put up with having to depend on a gas engine again! Of course there's no subject on which everyone will agree, but at least among those commenting to EV forums, most of those who bought a PHEV later say they wish they had gone full BEV.
You'll definitely want a L2 (240 volt) charger wherever you park your car, not a L1 (120 volt) one, on those very cold days. Get a licensed electrician to install it and check the house (or apartment building) electrical circuit. Be warned: Not all professional electricians are licensed, so do ask!
And BTW -- Welcome to the EV community!
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Pushmi-Pullyu
Well-Known Member
I can't speak from personal experience, but from what others have said, the best strategy is not to set foot in a dealership, but rather e-mail several dealers in your region and ask what their best price on that car is. (That also avoids the B.S. of a salesman asking you to wait while he "gets approval" from his boss, pressuring you by forcing you to sit and stew while he relaxes and jokes around with his co-workers.) Then you might go to the dealer you prefer, presumably one near where you live (but make sure it's a dealer that can service your BEV!), with a printout of the e-mail in hand, and ask if they'll match the best deal you were offered. At least that will give you a much stronger negotiating position. Never forget that a car salesman is a professional negotiator, whose job it is to part you from as much money as he can, regardless of how friendly he comes across.
Don't let a car salesman bully you into paying more just because it's an EV. EV sales aren't that rare. I'll echo what Fastnf said: Take your time looking for the best deal, and be prepared to walk away if you don't get a good deal. If the salesman senses that you're anxious to make a deal that day, that gives him a negotiating advantage. Being willing to walk out of the door without a deal that day gives you an advantage.
As they say: Knowledge is power. Be aware of the tricks of the trade that car salesmen use to get you to pay more than a fair price for the car. If you haven't read up on that subject, then please do so before you ever set foot in a dealership. If you're not familiar with that subject, here's a good place to start:
"10 Clever Tricks Car Salesmen Use That You Should Know How to Handle"
And good luck on finding a good deal!
Ev050
New Member
I am In the Greater Boston area and own a KONA 2019. We have free ChargePoint at work, and my commute is about 20 miles -25 miles every day. I haven’t miss my Subaru Crosstreck 2015 a single day so far. Now that is cooling down I did notice the range going down a little bit but also learned to pay attention on the battery bar indicator and not the range. I also live in a condo with no charger(yet!) so no charging option at home, and my towns doesn’t have a charger other than the local ford dealership. I am waiting for below 30 temps and see what happens but so far so good, I wouldn’t be worried about driving 100 miles. Chargers are popping up all over, you just have to be more of a planner and change your driving habits a little bit. I always challenge my self to be use my car more efficiently, learned to heat the car before my commute and use the heated sits and steering wheel, you can also use the driver only heating if commuting alone.
But anyways....I am glad I went all the way electric and not just half way, although are PHEV’s half way?
I am sure any EV is a good choice, but I am so happy I chose a Kona EV!!
Have fun shopping your first EV!
Sent from my iPhone using Inside EVs
But anyways....I am glad I went all the way electric and not just half way, although are PHEV’s half way?
I am sure any EV is a good choice, but I am so happy I chose a Kona EV!!
Have fun shopping your first EV!
Sent from my iPhone using Inside EVs
SkookumPete
Well-Known Member
The EPA range surely already takes into account some cold weather, as the rating for the Kona (415 km) is well below the actual summer range of 450-550 km.
Pobre
Member
I own my Kona EV since March. I love the car and will save you lots of money especially if you have solar panel in your house if not "Free" charging. I do a lot of short trips in a daily basis and would total to 60-80 miles mixed city/Hwy driving. occasionally i drive far (i.e. San Diego from where I live is about 100 miles.) and i can still reach home without charging in between. that is taking into consideration the elevation gains and freeway driving speeds and the weather will greatly change that.
I love the fact that some places offers free charging for your car and also up close parking as well. Legoland for my kids has it next to the hotel and is almost next to the ticket gates. Sea World San Diego also has it free and close to entrance as well. I recently went to Las Vegas and drove past the border (200 miles from where i live) and charged in one of the Casinos there for free (fast charge L3) and got plenty of juice to go around Las Vegas. went back home, charge in the same place again for free and head home. Although, I was forced to stop one more time for 15 min charging. but the fact that overall, my entire round trip travel cost to Las Vegas is just around $3.
I love driving an electric car but not particularly focused on the Kona. I was thinking of getting the Kia Niro EV as alternative and also Tesla model 3 when i was shopping for my new EV. My wife wanted a "taller car" so it took the Tesla out of the picture. but what really got me into choosing the Kona over the other is the Battery warranty. I always keep my car for a long time and warranty of the battery is going to be a big deal for me in the long run due to potential out of pocket cost to me when the battery fails. But then again I heard lifetime warranty will only be offered to 2019 models Kona EV. so if you cant get the 2019 model, you might want to look for your alternate option. with that being said, I would still buy an EV and i would seriously consider getting the Kia Niro EV as my top option as it offers bigger cargo space and rear leg room with similar warranty. the range is still above 220 which in my case is what i needed.
In California, after all the possible incentives you can get, these cars would only cost somewhere around $23,000 form their original price (plus the tax and other mandatory fees of course). with the savings you get from fuel and less maintenance, it will bring the ownership cost even lower. So, if you think of it, there's really no point buying Gas cars anymore. But Im being Honest, there will be more improvement with technology regarding EVs and dont limit yourself to Kona EV as it is one of the best but "NOT The Best" at this time.
I love the fact that some places offers free charging for your car and also up close parking as well. Legoland for my kids has it next to the hotel and is almost next to the ticket gates. Sea World San Diego also has it free and close to entrance as well. I recently went to Las Vegas and drove past the border (200 miles from where i live) and charged in one of the Casinos there for free (fast charge L3) and got plenty of juice to go around Las Vegas. went back home, charge in the same place again for free and head home. Although, I was forced to stop one more time for 15 min charging. but the fact that overall, my entire round trip travel cost to Las Vegas is just around $3.
I love driving an electric car but not particularly focused on the Kona. I was thinking of getting the Kia Niro EV as alternative and also Tesla model 3 when i was shopping for my new EV. My wife wanted a "taller car" so it took the Tesla out of the picture. but what really got me into choosing the Kona over the other is the Battery warranty. I always keep my car for a long time and warranty of the battery is going to be a big deal for me in the long run due to potential out of pocket cost to me when the battery fails. But then again I heard lifetime warranty will only be offered to 2019 models Kona EV. so if you cant get the 2019 model, you might want to look for your alternate option. with that being said, I would still buy an EV and i would seriously consider getting the Kia Niro EV as my top option as it offers bigger cargo space and rear leg room with similar warranty. the range is still above 220 which in my case is what i needed.
In California, after all the possible incentives you can get, these cars would only cost somewhere around $23,000 form their original price (plus the tax and other mandatory fees of course). with the savings you get from fuel and less maintenance, it will bring the ownership cost even lower. So, if you think of it, there's really no point buying Gas cars anymore. But Im being Honest, there will be more improvement with technology regarding EVs and dont limit yourself to Kona EV as it is one of the best but "NOT The Best" at this time.
Pushmi-Pullyu
Well-Known Member
It does not. Not at all. If you're getting more than the EPA rated range, then that probably has more to do with your personal driving than the car's engineering. Probably more to do with either driving mostly at lower speeds rather than at highway speeds, or else your individual hypermiling techniques.
After all of this, I've hit a glitch. I should have educated myseld about the Federal Tax credit vs assuming. I was under the impression that the tax credit was a guaranteed $7500 check from the federal government for purchasing the EV in question. I was wrong. It was my plan to purchase the Kona and pay my wifes car loan off with the tax credit. I guess the tax credit is non-refundable, meaning if I break even or get a refund (as we did last year) on my federal tax return this year, my tax credit would be zippo. This is truly a bummer, but it is what it is. Life goes on. I'll have to revisit this in about a year and a half. In the meantime, I want to thank everyone for the excellent information and guidance!
I skimmed through this thread pretty quickly, but I just wanted to point out that the tax credit has nothing to do with the balance you owe or are due at the end of the year. Let's say your taxes for the year are $8000, but you had $8500 withheld so that you get a $500 refund at the end of the year. You still get the full $7500 credit. If your taxes are less than $7500 dollars, then you get a smaller credit. But maybe I missed something, or maybe you already figured this out.
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