No, I've had Winter mode enabled but do not see any power being consumed by battery conditioning when I look at the power usage breakdown (even on sub-freezing temperature days)
Cold Weather Questions
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No, I've had Winter mode enabled but do not see any power being consumed by battery conditioning when I look at the power usage breakdown (even on sub-freezing temperature days)
Hi Maine Niro,
Thanks for your reply. That's interesting (and too bad) that after driving for 10 minutes, your Niro started charging at 22 kW, even with the Cold Weather Package. What I was actually wondering though is what fast charging speeds you or anyone else with the Cold Weather Package are seeing when driving from 100% SOC all the way down to 10% or 20% SOC. If you start at 100%, then drive on the highway for a few hours, and your Niro has the Cold Weather Package, is your car still cold-gateing, or is it fast charging at the same speeds it does in warm weather?
Thanks for your reply. That's interesting (and too bad) that after driving for 10 minutes, your Niro started charging at 22 kW, even with the Cold Weather Package. What I was actually wondering though is what fast charging speeds you or anyone else with the Cold Weather Package are seeing when driving from 100% SOC all the way down to 10% or 20% SOC. If you start at 100%, then drive on the highway for a few hours, and your Niro has the Cold Weather Package, is your car still cold-gateing, or is it fast charging at the same speeds it does in warm weather?
ITown
Active Member
Interesting... that's the same charging speed that I got (at a similar temperature) without the cold weather package. I thought the cold weather package only did two things: heat the battery and include a heat pump. If the battery is not heated enough to charge quickly, I'm not sure when the battery heating is even kicking in.
If you're driving at high speeds, the car battery should be quite warm after driving it from 100% to 20%, regardless of if you have the cold weather package.
You can see a video illustration of that experience here:
(Skip to 3:20)
On his first charging stop (after driving 168 miles averaging 49 mph) with a 21F outside temperature, he was able to get 39 kW as soon as he plugged in, which quickly went up to the maximum charging speed.
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Low-tech observations on my first winter with the Niro EV (without Cold Weather Package) in Texas:
(1) I use almost exclusively Level 1 charging in my garage at home, which is adequate for my commuting needs. I haven't noticed any significant difference in charging speed with the cooler weather.
(2) Running the heater makes a significant dent in mileage--more than A/C in the summer. I try to avoid running it, unless it's extremely cold.
(3) The heated steering wheel and seats (in the Premium trim) don't have any noticeable effect on mileage. The combination of warm hands, back, and bum serve to keep the whole body quite warm, in all but the coldest weather. Those aren't features that I specifically sought or would have expected to use; but, knowing what I know now, I would insist on them.
(1) I use almost exclusively Level 1 charging in my garage at home, which is adequate for my commuting needs. I haven't noticed any significant difference in charging speed with the cooler weather.
(2) Running the heater makes a significant dent in mileage--more than A/C in the summer. I try to avoid running it, unless it's extremely cold.
(3) The heated steering wheel and seats (in the Premium trim) don't have any noticeable effect on mileage. The combination of warm hands, back, and bum serve to keep the whole body quite warm, in all but the coldest weather. Those aren't features that I specifically sought or would have expected to use; but, knowing what I know now, I would insist on them.
Maine Niro
New Member
Another data point from a work trip today.
242 mile round trip Maine to Mass to Maine, temperature 15 degrees F first leg, 24 degrees F second leg. 90% highway, average speed 75 mph.
Charged to 100% on home Level 2 before leaving, generally try not to go over 80% unless absolutely needed. Range showed 185 miles at departure with 100% battery in 12 degrees F.
Average 2.6 miles/kWH for the whole 242 mile trip.
On the second leg stopped after driving 20 minutes (125 miles in) to fill the battery at an EVgo. 25 degrees outside. Car had been sitting turned off for 3 hours in 20 degrees before starting the second leg.
45 minutes for 32 kWH, $14.34. Average draw 42 kW on a 50kW listed unit for the 45 minutes session allowed.
Restarted to get to 80%, 21 minutes for 12.35 kWH, $6.69. 37 kW rate average. I would presume the battery would be warmed after 45 minutes full DC charging.
Just the stats I'm seeing. Doesn't bug me, but it's a reality for us that might be lower than expectations published out there.
242 mile round trip Maine to Mass to Maine, temperature 15 degrees F first leg, 24 degrees F second leg. 90% highway, average speed 75 mph.
Charged to 100% on home Level 2 before leaving, generally try not to go over 80% unless absolutely needed. Range showed 185 miles at departure with 100% battery in 12 degrees F.
Average 2.6 miles/kWH for the whole 242 mile trip.
On the second leg stopped after driving 20 minutes (125 miles in) to fill the battery at an EVgo. 25 degrees outside. Car had been sitting turned off for 3 hours in 20 degrees before starting the second leg.
45 minutes for 32 kWH, $14.34. Average draw 42 kW on a 50kW listed unit for the 45 minutes session allowed.
Restarted to get to 80%, 21 minutes for 12.35 kWH, $6.69. 37 kW rate average. I would presume the battery would be warmed after 45 minutes full DC charging.
Just the stats I'm seeing. Doesn't bug me, but it's a reality for us that might be lower than expectations published out there.
ericy
Well-Known Member
When you started out, I assume the car had been outdoors or in an uninsulated garage (and not in a garage that was warmer than 12F)?
Maine Niro
New Member
Yup. Garages are for bikes & snowblowers, not cars.
42 kW average on a 50 kW rated EVGo charger isn't terrible. That's about my average at those stations in my 40 kWh Leaf on the first charge in the summer and the first and second charge in the winter. But I wonder what charge speed you would have seen if you had used an Electrify America station instead?
Thanks for the video. I watched all the parts where he stops to charge. Yes, he gets more or less max charging speed on all the 50 kW chargers. But if you skip to 44:34, his last charging stop is at a 175 kW fast charger after driving for many, many miles and hours. He arrives with 45% SOC and the car still only charges at 39-40 kW. At 49% SOC, the speed very briefly goes up to 57 kW, but then at 58% SOC it drops back down to 40 kW. My understanding is that in warm weather, the charging speed at all these SOCs would be above 70 kW. So it seems like after many hours/miles of highway driving, the Niro does NOT cold-gate on 50 kW chargers but it DOES cold-gate on 100+ kW chargers? Weird.
Maine Niro
New Member
As the real cold settles in a few more data points for others to compare to:
10 degrees F, snow tires, 90% highway @ 70 mph. 56 miles @ 2.3 miles per kWH.
20 degrees F, snow tires, 90% highway @ 60 mph. 6" Snow storm, wet roads, snow on the car, lots of friction. 120 miles @ 2.5 miles per kWH. Was 80% full leaving home but just barely made it back, only 5% battery left. Was quite a surprise / scare since the range showed 160 miles pulling out, but really only had 125 miles capacity at 80% that day. Will be more conservative in the future.
Even with the battery heater, way below the warm season mileage figures.
10 degrees F, snow tires, 90% highway @ 70 mph. 56 miles @ 2.3 miles per kWH.
20 degrees F, snow tires, 90% highway @ 60 mph. 6" Snow storm, wet roads, snow on the car, lots of friction. 120 miles @ 2.5 miles per kWH. Was 80% full leaving home but just barely made it back, only 5% battery left. Was quite a surprise / scare since the range showed 160 miles pulling out, but really only had 125 miles capacity at 80% that day. Will be more conservative in the future.
Even with the battery heater, way below the warm season mileage figures.
Thank you for the data points! These are really helpful. Good to know the Niro can handle snow well.
David T in Silicon Valley
Active Member
Don't you find you need to have the heating system on for the heated seats to function? Going to test this right now.
David T in Silicon Valley
Active Member
Yeah. It kicks in without the main heat turned on. good tip, Gigi
I asked this question a few months ago, but I'm still trying to get an answer to it. Can anyone help?
In the winter, in a Kia Niro EV, if you start at 100% SOC, then drive on the highway at 70 mph down to 10%-20% SOC, what does your fast charge curve look like on a 100+ kW charger? Fastned says that in summer conditions, you can expect 70+kW fast charging speeds on a 175 kW charger from around 10%-50% SOC, but what about in 20-30 degree Fahrenheit weather? I live in the NYC area and drive to Boston and DC regularly; I'm trying to decide between the Niro EV and the Leaf Plus. I'm generally familiar with some of the reported cold-gate issues on the Niro EV, but what I'm trying to figure out is what will happen if, say, in January, I leave NYC in a Niro EV with 100% SOC, drive 180 miles or so toward Boston at 70 mph, and then immediately plug in at a 150 kW fast charge station at around 10%-20% SOC? Could I still expect 70+ kW fast charging speeds between 10%-50%, or would the fast charging speeds be lower? Any insight would be appreciated.
In the winter, in a Kia Niro EV, if you start at 100% SOC, then drive on the highway at 70 mph down to 10%-20% SOC, what does your fast charge curve look like on a 100+ kW charger? Fastned says that in summer conditions, you can expect 70+kW fast charging speeds on a 175 kW charger from around 10%-50% SOC, but what about in 20-30 degree Fahrenheit weather? I live in the NYC area and drive to Boston and DC regularly; I'm trying to decide between the Niro EV and the Leaf Plus. I'm generally familiar with some of the reported cold-gate issues on the Niro EV, but what I'm trying to figure out is what will happen if, say, in January, I leave NYC in a Niro EV with 100% SOC, drive 180 miles or so toward Boston at 70 mph, and then immediately plug in at a 150 kW fast charge station at around 10%-20% SOC? Could I still expect 70+ kW fast charging speeds between 10%-50%, or would the fast charging speeds be lower? Any insight would be appreciated.
ITown
Active Member
I can't say with certainty as I've never performed the exact test you're asking about. However, my impression is that it is hard to get past 55ish kW without warmer ambient temperatures (50ish F).
With that said, I don't think 100 kW chargers even exist in America for the Chademo plug that the Leaf uses. Which means that you'll never exceed 50 kW in the Leaf.
ericy
Well-Known Member
For me, the lack of active temperature management of the battery in a Leaf makes it a no-go for me.
ABRP has a model of of how the cars charge, and you can see what it looks like here:
https://forum.abetterrouteplanner.c...ng-data-for-the-bolt-kona-niro-soul-and-leaf/
They don't take ambient temperature into account here.
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solarjk
Member
I have a evobd2 display which gives battery temp and start of charge while I am driving. Without this or something else, it is impossible to understand anything, and with it, you are still left with the mystery of charger that you are plugged into. I went to Florida and back. Could have kept temperatures at each charger, but did not. Battery temperature rises slowly as you drive, but normally. starting temp is lower than the ambient temp when you start to drive. the temp build slowly, but heat loss from air flow and rain effect it.
So one can not expect, just be happy if you see 75-77 Kw and not sad if it is only 38Kw. Anyway, Here is a couple of pictures and spreadsheet
So one can not expect, just be happy if you see 75-77 Kw and not sad if it is only 38Kw. Anyway, Here is a couple of pictures and spreadsheet
solarjk
Member
Anyway, charging speeds varied from 85 miles in 30 minute to 130 miles in thirty minutes. Shellack of battery temperature in the car's display is barrier to understanding charging speed. If high consistent charging speeds in important, buy a tesla. But at $ 42,000 or lower, the niro has longer range and is almost as efficient. EA pricing was an issue, but the network made impossible to drive to Florida. Seems like a long time ago. Stay safe.