Clarity Electric: Discontinued

insightman said:
@DucRider posted in the Honda e forum that the Clarity Electric has been discontinued. I went to the Honda's Clarity web page and this is what's left:

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The web designers were in such a hurry to delete the Clarity Electric they didn't take the time to center the two remaining Clarity models on the page.
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Selling ( leasing) at what appears as 43 per month in the US, obviously had something to do with it.

The Clarity PHEV on the other hand uses i-mmd tech- something Honda eventually wants in most of their vehicles. That the Insight is more emblematic of their overall product line direction in the US doesn't fully detract from Clarity's niche status. Why they won't position it much more strongly against the Prius Prime is anyone's guess.

https://www.anl.gov/es/light-duty-electric-drive-vehicles-monthly-sales-updates

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
 
Another California compliance car bites the dust. Not surprised to see it discontinued as with a 90 mile best range, this vehicle was about 10 years behind the competition.
 
Lowell_Greenberg said:
Selling ( leasing) at what appears as 43 per month in the US, obviously had something to do with it.
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Demand exceeded production and delivery. We had to wait months for our 2019. The range is a lot less of an issue now with the DCFC charging station buildout in CA. The car does have some serious tech issues that make charging it an exercise in patience.
 
Good. More batteries for the PHEV. A car with 87 miles of range on a good day, has a pretty limited audience.

Dumping the FV can’t be far behind.
 
Landshark said:
Good. More batteries for the PHEV. A car with 87 miles of range on a good day, has a pretty limited audience.

Dumping the FV can’t be far behind.
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The PHEV is much more likely to be discontinued than the Fuel Cell due to the way ZEV and TZEV credits are calculated, applied, and restricted. They have to sell 3.5 PHEV's in every Section 177 State in order to get the same amount of credits that 1 FCX sold in CA earns. And they can only utilize TZEV credits for part of the minimum they are required to have

And on a good day, our Clarity Electric will easily exceed 100 miles of range. Not hauling around an unneeded gas engine (and associated systems) allows it to get nearly double the PHEV range with only 50% more batteries.
 
DucRider said:
The PHEV is much more likely to be discontinued than the Fuel Cell due to the way ZEV and TZEV credits are calculated, applied, and restricted.

That would be a tragedy. Given that the most common process for producing Hydrogen is natural gas reformation (fossil fuel) which produces hydrogen and CO2. The process costs 3X the price of natural gas. The electrolysis of water method is even more costly. Only 1% of the hydrogen produced in France comes from the electrolysis process. Data from Planete Energies.

A Kilo of H2 costs $13-16, per the California Fuel Cell Partnership, that equates to $6-7/ gallon gas. This is why FC drivers are given a $15,000 fuel allowance for 3 years. Hydrogen is scarcely available in CA and virtually unavailable elsewhere. There was even a little disruption in the supply awhile back and our friends with a Mirai were given a loaner car and Toyota offered to make their car payment for 6 months as compensation.

They have to sell 3.5 PHEV's in every Section 177 State in order to get the same amount of credits that 1 FCX sold in CA earns. And they can only utilize TZEV credits for part of the minimum they are required to have.

How many credits does Honda need? It is painfully obvious that when a group of elected or appointed geniuses get together and devise a plan, there is no guarantee that it will be a good plan.

And on a good day, our Clarity Electric will easily exceed 100 miles of range. Not hauling around an unneeded gas engine (and associated systems) allows it to get nearly double the PHEV range with only 50% more batteries.
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Responses are imbedded, in italics, in the attached quote above.

On a good day our Clarity PHEV can go 65 miles on EV. And that is while lugging around all that unneeded weight that allows me to easily go another 250 miles without having to stop every hour to charge for 2 hours. I’m not impressed with the BEV model going 100 miles.

I am pleased that it has been discontinued.
 
Landshark said:
I am pleased that it has been discontinued.
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Too bad Honda didn't use the limited-production Clarity Electric to test new-chemistry batteries that would stretch its range and eventually find their way into the "mass-production" Clarity PHEV to stretch its EV range, too.
 
insightman said:
Too bad Honda didn't use the limited-production Clarity Electric to test new-chemistry batteries that would stretch its range and eventually find their way into the "mass-production" Clarity PHEV to stretch its EV range, too.
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Maybe they’ve canned the team that convinced them to produce one of the shortest range BEV’s known to mankind and hired an Ad Agency to promote their PHEV that offers one of the longest EV ranges on the market.

jh/“&!3anfkxhUvoen..!:’mybk

Sorry, I dropped my phone while laughing.
 
Landshark said:
On a good day our Clarity PHEV can go 65 miles on EV.
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I wish I knew how this was accomplished: Are you driving at 35 mph on flat roads with neither heat nor AC running? Is it mostly stop-and-go so that you benefit from a lot of regen? What's the secret?
 
I am sad to see any company drop any EV choice that consumers may find attractive.
I have not driven in either of our cars for 250 miles in a single trip more than once in the last 6 years. Nor do I have any desire to. My travels are done in other ways

Extrapolating that your personal usage pattern and/or desire is what is best for the marketplace is presumptuous (at best). I recognize that different people have different needs and usage patterns. I spent hundreds of hours in the last couple of months preparing for and then presenting all of the options to those we interact with at the Portland Auto Show. Some were told that their situation was not really suitable for any plug-in vehicle, others that a PHEV might be best, and others still that a BEV would be a great vehicle for them. A big drawback of the Clarity (outside of CA) is that someone would need to order one without an opportunity for a test drive (and then have to wait 2-3 months for delivery). That knocks it down a couple of notches as a feasible option for many potential customers.

I wasn't debating the merits or economics of hydrogen vs gas vs electric, simply stating the facts that will have a great influence on what types of vehicles Honda is likely to sell in particular markets as influenced by rules/regulations beyond their control. I personally think hydrogen fuel cells are foolish on many levels, but that doesn't change the economic benefits that companies like Honda, Toyota and Hyundai get for offering them.
PHEV's are in greater danger because they have even less need for TZEV credits than ZEV credits, and if they are going to lose money on a vehicle they are likely to maximize the credits they earn while doing so. At one point a ZEV credit on the open market was close to the $5K mark that CA assigns to a shortfall, but supply and demand has driven that considerably lower. I don't know what the current market value is, but a TZEV credit is likely easy to buy for very little cost.

Honda recently committed to increase the electrification % of their fleet from previously announced goals, but at the same time decided to include traditional hybrids in that definition. Maybe the Lexus "self charging" hybrid caught their attention. Only time will provide the answer about the wisdom of that path.
 
I believe Honda could easily sell more Honda e BEVs in the US than the meager number of Clarity Electrics the company brought to these shores. Not only does the Honda e have substantially greater range than the Clarity Electric, it would be the cutest car sold in the US. Alas, the pleas for the Honda e that I mailed to the Honda honchos disappeared under a pile of Honda Pilot sales reports. Either that or someone at 1919 Torrance Boulevard tossed my letters into the circular file as they yelled, "We don't need no stinkin' BEV credits!"
 
insightman said:
I believe Honda could easily sell more Honda e BEVs in the US than the meager number of Clarity Electrics the company brought to these shores. Not only does the Honda e have substantially greater range than the Clarity Electric, it would be the cutest car sold in the US. Alas, the pleas for the Honda e that I mailed to the Honda honchos disappeared under a pile of Honda Pilot sales reports. Either that or someone at 1919 Torrance Boulevard tossed my letters into the circular file as they yelled, "We don't need no stinkin' BEV credits!"
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They could sell many times more Clarity BEVs if they made them available. Only a limited number of dealers in CA and OR were able to offer them, and all had a waiting list that they called when Honda gave notice that their next allotment of 1 or 2 cars would be coming.

The Honda e would do very well indeed - at least when first introduced. Both smart and Fiat have pulled out of the US market with their small urban offering - not just electric but entirely. People that wanted them tended to really want them and once that initial wave was satisfied, sales suffered.

Another factor is that it is very likely that price/profit pressure makes this a low to negative margin offering. EU standards are in some ways more restrictive than the US, and Honda may need the Honda e to be sold there more than the US. ZEV credit in the Us can be banked for future years as well as bought/sold/trades. The EU systme requires a measured improvement in fleet emissions/fuel economy every year from an baseline established for every manufacturer. No doubt the major factor in the Mustang Mach-e being delivered there before the US.

At the auto show, the Mini e was a big hit, but mini is not planning big #'s in the US
 
Kerbe said:
I wish I knew how this was accomplished: Are you driving at 35 mph on flat roads with neither heat nor AC running? Is it mostly stop-and-go so that you benefit from a lot of regen? What's the secret?
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There’s no single secret. Like anything it is a combination of factors. 65 miles is the exception, not the rule. I have achieved a few 60+ mile trips on EV and dozens of 50+ mile trips.

Some of the following conditions and driving practices must be present:
Warm weather, +70F
Some, but not all, slow and go traffic.
Gradual acceleration and coasting to a slow crawl/stop when possible.

Pancake flat terrain may help, but is not a part of my territory. I rarely drive to the same place more that 2 days in a row. When that occurs it is rarely at the same time of day.

One, somewhat regular drive, is 46 miles round trip. The first half is flat to gradually up hill for ~12 miles. Perhaps a gain of ~500’ followed by a 2 mile descent of ~400’. The remainder is relatively flat. The return is the exact opposite. In some cases one direction or the other has been in heavy traffic, taking ~1hr to complete the leg. In light traffic it takes 30 minutes. Sometimes both directions are heavy traffic, sometimes both directions are light traffic.

For approximately 2 dozen trips the ICE has never engaged. Remaining EV range after the round trip has displayed as low as 3 and as high as 17. AC is used in hot weather. It does not seem to affect EV range significantly. Heat is not used with the exception of occasional seat warmer for the first few miles.
 
DucRider said:
I have not driven in either of our cars for 250 miles in a single trip more than once in the last 6 years. Nor do I have any desire to. My travels are done in other ways
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DucRider said:
Extrapolating that your personal usage pattern and/or desire is what is best for the marketplace is presumptuous (at best).
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I would agree with the second quote. The first quote could easily be placed in the “presumptuous” category, along with a group of people “telling” others what vehicle may be best suited to their needs.

We are a multi-vehicle household and we would never consider adding a vehicle that had a range of less than 100 miles to our fleet, regardless of the source of motive power. Such a vehicle would certainly be impractical for a single-vehicle household.

Perhaps the needs of a majority of Americans has something to do with the demise of the BEV Clarity. At least until a group of meddlers or some other unnatural market forces convince them otherwise.

We enjoy traveling in other ways as well. One of those is in a diesel motorhome. We traveled more than 5000 miles on about $2000 worth of fuel two summers ago. Less than what it would cost a Clarity FCV owner to travel that distance if they had to pay for their own fuel. It’s possible fewer emissions were produced as well.
 
Landshark said:
I would agree with the second quote. The first quote could easily be placed in the “presumptuous” category, along with a group of people “telling” others what vehicle may be best suited to their needs.
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I said absolutely nothing about other peoples choices or needs, and certainly didn't "tell" them what vehicle would be best for them. It was merely a statement of fact. Not sure how that is "presumptuous".

You did post "I am pleased that it has been discontinued".
Not sure why it's very existence bothered you and why eliminating what was a very good choice for many pleases you.
There was always a waiting list for the few they deemed to make, so it definitely works for more than a few. It obviously wouldn't work for you, but saying that it therefore shouldn't exist?
 
DucRider said:
I am sad to see any company drop any EV choice that consumers may find attractive.
I have not driven in either of our cars for 250 miles in a single trip more than once in the last 6 years. Nor do I have any desire to. My travels are done in other ways

Extrapolating that your personal usage pattern and/or desire is what is best for the marketplace is presumptuous (at best). I recognize that different people have different needs and usage patterns. I spent hundreds of hours in the last couple of months preparing for and then presenting all of the options to those we interact with at the Portland Auto Show. Some were told that their situation was not really suitable for any plug-in vehicle, others that a PHEV might be best, and others still that a BEV would be a great vehicle for them.
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Here’s what you said. It comes off as quite arrogant. As if your driving habits are somehow more in line with most driver’s needs than mine. You are certainly in a minority, having only driven a vehicle more than 250 miles once in 6 years.

The last sentence quoted above is where you described how people were “told” what vehicle would best suit their needs.

Yes, I have never thought the BEV Clarity was a very useful vehicle, but people buy the strangest thing from time to time. It didn’t last long, for what seems to me to be obvious reasons.

Now, can you show me where I said it shouldn’t exist?
 
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