clarity ECON/EV-only mode gets messed up

V

victor_2019

Active Member
I noticed an annoying software bug in the clarity PHEV

I keep my car in ECON mode because I want it to remain in EV mode all the time, since my commute is short (10 minutes or so).

and when I start with the car in ECON mode the ICE will remain off all the time.

however:
if I change to normal or sport mode and accelerate hard, the ICE will come on and stay on until the internal temperature is high enough. this is normal.

what is not normal is that after I do this, and I switch back to ECON mode, the ICE keeps switching back on after it turns off. this happens over and over until I turn the car off from the start button and then back on again.

so, to summarize:

car in ECON from start-up: ICE never turns on.

Switch car to normal or sport, accelerate hard: ICE turns on.
Switch car back to ECON.
ICE remains on until temperature is reached, then ICE turns off. so far so good.
however, now, with car in still in ECON mode, ICE will start turning on and off. It turns on when accelerating even though in ECON mode the acceleration needed to trigger ICE turn-on is never reached (I use moderate acceleration here, I don't push pedal past the physical switch point or anywhere close to that).
ICE turns on during acceleration, then off when coasting/slowing down. then on again during accel.
pressing going out of ECON and back into ECON mode does nothing to fix this problem.

if I pull over and turn the car off and on again, the car behavior returns to normal and ICE won't turn on again. I can accelerate as hard as I want, as long as I don't go beyond physical switch, and ICE won't turn on.
 
I don’t think this is specific to Econ mode. I never use that mode and have seen this exact same behavior in normal and sport mode. I also don’t think it’s just the regular engine maintenance cycle because I’ve seen it happen a couple days after a long interstate trip with lots of hybrid driving. Turning the car off for a few seconds and then on again at a stoplight is the only way I’ve found to fix it once it’s behaving that way. It’s probably just an intermittent bug that we have to live with.
 
So, what’s annoying? You’ve stated you keep the car in ECON to run as an EV as much as possible and the car works just like you want it to in that mode. Why not just leave it there?
 
it's annoying that I have to shut the car off to make it work properly again.

sometimes I want to put it in normal mode because the acceleration in econ mode is very anemic and the air conditioning is weaker, and I expect it to go back to EV mode when I put it back to ECON.

is it too much to expect the car not to have stupid bugs?
 
victor_2019 said:
sometimes I want to put it in normal mode because the acceleration in econ mode is very anemic...
Click to expand...

The level of acceleration should be the same in all modes, albeit found at different points in gas pedal travel. I’ll agree that ECON makes the car feel sluggish - which is why I never use it - but stomp on the gas and you should get the same acceleration as any other mode.
 
It sounds like you might be describing what AnthonyW witnessed at the link below. It seems that when the engine is started in EV mode (through high-SoC regen or high acceleration demand), the computer warms it up through multiple stages. He witnessed a two-stage warm-up with highway driving, but mentioned that it could take 4-5 cycles in city driving. This also explains the common missing blue bar: the power curve stays white as long as this warm-up cycle is happening.

https://www.insideevsforum.com/comm...nexpected-ice-turns-on.3402/page-3#post-33843
 
victor_2019 said:
it's annoying that I have to shut the car off to make it work properly again.

sometimes I want to put it in normal mode because the acceleration in econ mode is very anemic and the air conditioning is weaker, and I expect it to go back to EV mode when I put it back to ECON.

is it too much to expect the car not to have stupid bugs?
Click to expand...
Uhh, your car is working exactly as it was designed. You're the one changing driving modes and the vehicle is helping your lead foot by engaging the ICE.

Maybe you should modify your behavior?
 
I have noticed anytime I punch accelerator below the little notch, ICE is on for awhile. I assume the stress of the power surge, heat and the sudden ICE ON, system needs a cooling, and stress catch up.
 
victor_2019 said:
I noticed an annoying software bug in the clarity PHEV

I keep my car in ECON mode because I want it to remain in EV mode all the time, since my commute is short (10 minutes or so).

and when I start with the car in ECON mode the ICE will remain off all the time.

however:
if I change to normal or sport mode and accelerate hard, the ICE will come on and stay on until the internal temperature is high enough. this is normal.

what is not normal is that after I do this, and I switch back to ECON mode, the ICE keeps switching back on after it turns off. this happens over and over until I turn the car off from the start button and then back on again.

so, to summarize:

car in ECON from start-up: ICE never turns on.

Switch car to normal or sport, accelerate hard: ICE turns on.
Switch car back to ECON.
ICE remains on until temperature is reached, then ICE turns off. so far so good.
however, now, with car in still in ECON mode, ICE will start turning on and off. It turns on when accelerating even though in ECON mode the acceleration needed to trigger ICE turn-on is never reached (I use moderate acceleration here, I don't push pedal past the physical switch point or anywhere close to that).
ICE turns on during acceleration, then off when coasting/slowing down. then on again during accel.
pressing going out of ECON and back into ECON mode does nothing to fix this problem.

if I pull over and turn the car off and on again, the car behavior returns to normal and ICE won't turn on again. I can accelerate as hard as I want, as long as I don't go beyond physical switch, and ICE won't turn on.
Click to expand...
The details you provided are pretty clear, the only thing I didn't get is when it gets into this situation in Econ mode is ICE acting like it does in sport mode, or worse? It sounds like you are saying when it gets into this state almost any acceleration will trigger ICE not just relatively hard acceleration at the level that would trigger ICE in sport mode. Either one would seem to be a bug but that's what I wasn't sure about from your post.

Also I think I infer from your message that you do not experience a similar.problem after ICE is activated in Econ mode after warmup is complete, only if ICE was activated while you were in sport mode then switch to Econ, correct?
 
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For first question, any acceleration causes ICE to turn on.
I usually drive pretty ecologically with low acceleration. If i switch to normal, do a hard accel which switches ICE on, then go back to ECON and my usual slow acceleration, the ICE will continue to turn on. Imagine on a residential street with lots of stops, after every stop it turns on and when I'm done accelerating it turns off until next stop. Meanwhile my battery is full.

For second question, i don't know. I never push the acceleration down below the switch in ECON mode so it never turns on the ICE. I only noticed this when i use normal or sport. Perhaps it would behave the same way if ICE was started inby hard accel in ECON?
 
Sounds like you would be another vote for a true EV mode, that has the car operate with full power and never run the ICE. Since it has no EV-only mode, all of us have to accept the ICE running at seemingly odd times. So, what you have described may not be a “stupid bug”. There may be a reason Honda designed the operation that way? Is there any way of operating the car on your short commute that is not annoying? As it is, you have described some major conflicts with your needs and EV; hard acceleration and powerful air conditioning don’t fit well with ECON and its emphasis on EV.
 
victor_2019 said:
Imagine on a residential street with lots of stops, after every stop it turns on and when I'm done accelerating it turns off until next stop. Meanwhile my battery is full.
Click to expand...
That is what I was gathering from what you were saying. I have never experienced anything like that, but probably like most people I don't switch from sport to econ while driving but I will try it next time I have a chance. You should also try triggering ICE in econ mode to see if it behaves the same way, as that would indicate whether the problem occurs for you anytime ICE is triggered in EV mode, or if it is just related to switching from sport to econ.
 
As @Fast Eddie B explained, if you use the accelerator pedal as Honda intended, you can achieve the car's full acceleration in ECON Mode by pressing through the click and flooring the accelerator. It's actually much more satisfying to make that rare hard stomp on the accelerator instead of simply pressing a button to turn off ECON Mode. And you don't have to go searching for the button.

I'm not sure the accelerator pedal mapping in NORMAL Mode actually gives you full acceleration without pressing through the click because I don't drive in any mode other than ECON.

I have experienced the Clarity PHEV's penchant for being more willing to start the ICE for no apparent reason after I've activated it by pressing through the click--the car's brain doesn't think like we do. When this happens, I don't think it's a good idea to restart the car until after the ICE has shut off on its own at least once.
 
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Last night, I picked up an old High School buddy for dinner, as he was in town for business.

I was explaining how the electric car worked, how I almost never use gas, and how the image on the display was showing energy going into and out of the battery.

Then for absolutely no obvious reason whatsoever, the ice kicks on:)

Then I had to explain that the ice sometimes turns on for no reason/to lubricate the parts or some other reason.

"I thought you said that you almost never need gas, " he asked.

Then I changed the subject instead of going into the lengthy Clarity explanation:)

I mention this only as it turned on in the 20 second window where we were looking at it, as I was explaining how it worked:)
 
victor_2019 said:
Imagine on a residential street with lots of stops, after every stop it turns on and when I'm done accelerating it turns off until next stop. Meanwhile my battery is full.
Click to expand...
I should have said I have never experience that in EV mode but I do experience that in HV mode because that is normal HV operation. Just to ask an obvious question, are you sure the HV indicator isn't on when this is happening? The EV indicator coming on doesn't by itself mean you are in EV mode. You are in EV mode only when you have more than zero miles range (which you said you do) but also the HV indicator has to be off.
 
victor_2019 said:
I noticed an annoying software bug in the clarity PHEV

I keep my car in ECON mode because I want it to remain in EV mode all the time, since my commute is short (10 minutes or so).

and when I start with the car in ECON mode the ICE will remain off all the time.

however:
if I change to normal or sport mode and accelerate hard, the ICE will come on and stay on until the internal temperature is high enough. this is normal.

what is not normal is that after I do this, and I switch back to ECON mode, the ICE keeps switching back on after it turns off. this happens over and over until I turn the car off from the start button and then back on again.

so, to summarize:

car in ECON from start-up: ICE never turns on.

Switch car to normal or sport, accelerate hard: ICE turns on.
Switch car back to ECON.
ICE remains on until temperature is reached, then ICE turns off. so far so good.
however, now, with car in still in ECON mode, ICE will start turning on and off. It turns on when accelerating even though in ECON mode the acceleration needed to trigger ICE turn-on is never reached (I use moderate acceleration here, I don't push pedal past the physical switch point or anywhere close to that).
ICE turns on during acceleration, then off when coasting/slowing down. then on again during accel.
pressing going out of ECON and back into ECON mode does nothing to fix this problem.

if I pull over and turn the car off and on again, the car behavior returns to normal and ICE won't turn on again. I can accelerate as hard as I want, as long as I don't go beyond physical switch, and ICE won't turn on.
Click to expand...

Over, above, and beyond the excellent points about occasional System Checks and pushing the go pedal past the detent, you have to remember that ECON does not mean you don’t start or use the ICE. You can be in ECON even in HV mode. When you had the green leaf indicating you had ECON selected were you in HV? At that time was your Power Meter still almost all blue or had it turned to white? If so, the ICE staring and stopping was completely normal and expected.
 
victor_2019 said:
I noticed an annoying software bug in the clarity PHEV

I keep my car in ECON mode because I want it to remain in EV mode all the time, since my commute is short (10 minutes or so).

and when I start with the car in ECON mode the ICE will remain off all the time.
Try pressing the HV button, if it says HV ON - press it again and that should turn it off. If it is on when you press the HV will be turned off. either case you would be back to EV mode.

however:
if I change to normal or sport mode and accelerate hard, the ICE will come on and stay on until the internal temperature is high enough. this is normal.

what is not normal is that after I do this, and I switch back to ECON mode, the ICE keeps switching back on after it turns off. this happens over and over until I turn the car off from the start button and then back on again.

so, to summarize:

car in ECON from start-up: ICE never turns on.

Switch car to normal or sport, accelerate hard: ICE turns on.
Switch car back to ECON.
ICE remains on until temperature is reached, then ICE turns off. so far so good.
however, now, with car in still in ECON mode, ICE will start turning on and off. It turns on when accelerating even though in ECON mode the acceleration needed to trigger ICE turn-on is never reached (I use moderate acceleration here, I don't push pedal past the physical switch point or anywhere close to that).
ICE turns on during acceleration, then off when coasting/slowing down. then on again during accel.
pressing going out of ECON and back into ECON mode does nothing to fix this problem.

if I pull over and turn the car off and on again, the car behavior returns to normal and ICE won't turn on again. I can accelerate as hard as I want, as long as I don't go beyond physical switch, and ICE won't turn on.
Click to expand...
 
victor_2019 said:
I noticed an annoying software bug in the clarity PHEV
Click to expand...

You did not mention the state-of-charge of your battery. I've found that, when the SOC is low, Clarity uses the ICE much more frequently. If the SOC is more than 50%, the ICE rarely ignites. I have also found that, on very hot and humid days, if the AC is set to "auto" and decides that it needs maximum cooling and fan the ICE will ignite to provide additional power. I think, therefore, that the "Econ," "Sport" and "HV" buttons do not demand specific behaviors of Clarity - they simply suggest them. Clarity interprets these suggestions in its own way and as it sees fit.
 
I agree sounds like a software bug. I have not experienced this one personally. The only bug I have encountered is the XM radio mute with climate pre-condition problem. I use same work around as you -- power cycle the car -- which is obviously annoying. I took it to my Honda dealer and expected the usual response to software bugs:

1. Blame the user
2. Explain how this "feature" is normal

Refreshingly, the dealer acknowledged it's a software bug, apologized that Honda had not release a fix for it, and gave me an additional work-around, which is to kill the climate pre-condition with the key fob before opening the door to get in.

For your problem, after your drive mode switching, it sounds like the software could be getting stuck in HV mode. Have you tried cycling the HV mode on and off? Otherwise, try taking it to your dealer's service dept and bounce it off them. They might have another work around. Or they might blame you and explain how it's normal, in which case be prepared with an "X" to hang on the wall to bang your head against. Good luck.
 
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