Charging Practices.

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Wildeyed said:
So here's a question: if you baby the battery and keep your car forever but the battery drops to 80% of its original range do you then charge it to the "new 100" or do you now only charge to the "original 60%"?
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Both my Leafs reached sub 80% SOH within 3 years (Leafspy and range indications). I did indeed charge to 100% of the remaining capacity as the cell voltages were proportionally lower than original. But also keep in mind the car happily ran with 180 mv cell differential.
I suspect the LG Chem chemistry in our Kona EV packs has less degradation than the AESC chemistry, however I would be astounded to find a Kona EV "happily" running with that type of cell differential given the hair trigger BMS logic.
If my pack lasts that long to reach that 80% level, I will post here on my charging practices at that time...just don't hang around waiting with anticipation:D
 
Shark said:
One thing I can tell you is I learned long ago not to rely on anything a car dealer tells you. This is not unique to Hyundai, the same applies even to Porsche! Often they purposely lie through their teeth, sometimes they don't know what they are talking about, and other times they don't want to admit they don't know the answer and are merely guessing. And unfortunately it's not limited to just the salespeople.
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Thank You
 
Shark said:
One thing I can tell you is I learned long ago not to rely on anything a car dealer tells you. This is not unique to Hyundai, the same applies even to Porsche! Often they purposely lie through their teeth, sometimes they don't know what they are talking about, and other times they don't want to admit they don't know the answer and are merely guessing. And unfortunately it's not limited to just the salespeople.
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Just as a comparison, here's the info provided in the Taycan brochure rather than just in the owner's manual where you probably wouldn't find this out until you bought one.

upload_2021-9-18_9-3-48.webp
 
Shark said:
One thing I can tell you is I learned long ago not to rely on anything a car dealer tells you. This is not unique to Hyundai, the same applies even to Porsche! Often they purposely lie through their teeth, sometimes they don't know what they are talking about, and other times they don't want to admit they don't know the answer and are merely guessing. And unfortunately it's not limited to just the salespeople.
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You would think the sales people, with all the idle time they have sitting at their desks, would use that time to read the manuals, wouldn't you? Neither the Hyundai or Ford sales people I deal with had a clue about the Kona or Mach e, I felt like they owed me a paycheck for educating them. And my expertise is limited at best. The Tesla associates I've talked to are pretty savvy, but of course they can't sell in my state.
 
janusz Grabon said:
... My car is equipped with 67.5 KW battery. ... 67.5 KW 97%=65.4 or 64KW 97% +62 KW which one is correct?
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The best I understand is that Hyundai state that the battery we have is rated at 64 kWh and 180Ah. Any capacity outside of that is unavailable to us and therefore is only of academic interest, described below. A hint is that the cell model is "E63" which would certainly refer to a basic Li-ion capacity of 63Ah, however Hyundai advertise 60Ah where of course 3 x 60 = 180.

The cell datasheet from LG Chem (see link in the battery chemistry thread) indicates that the basic maximum cell voltage range is 2.50 to 4.20 OCV (as typical for Li-ion) but also implies that for an EV application that needs to be limited to a range of open circuit voltage of 3.16 to 4.16 V, which they define as SoC 0-100% using a table of values. See the graph I made from their data below, ignoring the notes at 3.190 OCV.

However, the LG Chem life tests at the end of the datasheet are based on using only up to "97%" of that range with no explanation provided. Additionally, we know that our displayed SoC is about the same as a BMS SoC of 95 to 96%.

It seems likely but not proven that our SoC(BMS) is the same as LG Chem's SoC definition and that Hyundai map that AND the top 3% LG avoid using to 0-100% for the dash display. E.g, 0% is the same for both and 95-96% is mapped to 100% displayed. The only fly in the ointment in this explanation is that we know we can reach 4.165 OCV at 100% displayed SoC so I'm not certain how that 3% fits in.

LG-Chem L63.webp
 
Ed V said:
So after perusing and searching this forum I have decided that to not let the battery get below 30 % and not higher than 80% on a continuous basis. If I take a road trip I will charge higher on the initial charge. My electrician will be out Sunday to upgrade my service from 100 amps( old house) to 200 amps. and I have my Chargepoint Flex back ordered from PSEG. They only sell the NEMA 6-50 model but $280 it is a deal. Any holes in this plan ?
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It does sound like a good plan and may work for you. I personally charge the car to 80% at home and 70% at the fast charges. I usually charge my car every night though. With the amount of driving and also having to take on the road for longer distances I rather always have it prepared. I do at home as I read in the book it was recommended if you charge daily.

Now I have been lower than 20% a couple of times as I miscalculated an uphill in the highway or the actual distance to the charger. But can’t be more than that.

I usually charge at 70% at the fast charging stations because in my experience I have noticed that above 70% the car or the charger go way lower and takes longer to charge (and they usually charge you by the minute). So I do it mostly to save a couple of bucks.



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Until the recall, I've charged my battery to 100%...why is that, you say...cuz the warranty says 8yrs and or 160,000km. I bought this car for its range, no different then buying an ice car with a 60ltr gas tank. If the mfg says , oh its best to fill the gas tank to only 3/4 of the tank, then there rated fuel range is flawed because I wouldn't be getting the full range of the 60ltr gas tank.
Before my battery replacement I've had this car for over 2.5yrs and I haven't seen much battery degradation, if it is its pretty minimal. Since getting my replacement battery its not like I've seen a huge range increase after charging to 100%. Crap if anything it almost seems like I'm getting less then the older battery. Hehehe
Now I haven't had it long enuf to solidly say that. Also the night Temps have gotten lower and that affects my range.
I know with my car, my best charge and range period is during August.
.
Bottom line , if car mfgs want to sell ev cars and say it's range is 420km, don't suggest to ppl, to charge only to 80%.
I hope this makes sense. Lol
 
Hyundai's default warranty is designed that even if you constantly rapid-charge 0 to 100%, battery will still have at least 70% capacity left.
But most of us do not want to keep cars just for the warranty period or 100 k miles (160 k km).
Our cars are expensive so we want them to last at least 10 years and double the mileage of the warranty and still be usable for longer trips.
 
KiwiME said:
The best I understand is that Hyundai state that the battery we have is rated at 64 kWh and 180Ah. Any capacity outside of that is unavailable to us and therefore is only of academic interest, described below. A hint is that the cell model is "E63" which would certainly refer to a basic Li-ion capacity of 63Ah, however Hyundai advertise 60Ah where of course 3 x 60 = 180.

The cell datasheet from LG Chem (see link in the battery chemistry thread) indicates that the basic maximum cell voltage range is 2.50 to 4.20 OCV (as typical for Li-ion) but also implies that for an EV application that needs to be limited to a range of open circuit voltage of 3.16 to 4.16 V, which they define as SoC 0-100% using a table of values. See the graph I made from their data below, ignoring the notes at 3.190 OCV.

However, the LG Chem life tests at the end of the datasheet are based on using only up to "97%" of that range with no explanation provided. Additionally, we know that our displayed SoC is about the same as a BMS SoC of 95 to 96%.

It seems likely but not proven that our SoC(BMS) is the same as LG Chem's SoC definition and that Hyundai map that AND the top 3% LG avoid using to 0-100% for the dash display. E.g, 0% is the same for both and 95-96% is mapped to 100% displayed. The only fly in the ointment in this explanation is that we know we can reach 4.165 OCV at 100% displayed SoC so I'm not certain how that 3% fits in.

View attachment 13500
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Thanks for logical explonation
 
Shark said:
... if one of the vehicles is going to be sitting unused for more than a few days I'll almost always put the car on one of my CTEK battery maintainers. Feel free to tell me it's overkill, I won't be insulted :)
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As someone with an MX-5 with a dead battery and an HD Road Glide w/o a dead battery, on a trickle charger, in the garage, no - not over reacting IMHO.
The 2019 user manual says this regarding charging, pg 2-10 :
  • AC charging ensures the optimal battery performance for a longer period of time than DC charging.
  • When the battery amount reaches the target level, charging will stop. Charging the battery only as much as needed (emphasis added) ensures the optimal battery performance for a longer period of time than charging the battery fully each time.
I think that Hyundai may have phrased it that way as it speaks to the intuition many feel regarding topping off each night but doesn't enter the realm of the dogmatic 20/80 prescription which implies that such is necessary for acceptable battery performance or that our vehicles have to be handled with kid-gloves. So to paraphrase: Charge and use the vehicle as fits your needs, but you don't need to top off each night and by not doing so, you may even help extend your optimal (not planned, expected, or even acceptable) battery life. Don't worry, be happy. Relax, don't worry, have a homebrew.
At least IMHO.
 
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