[Canada] undecided between Tesla M3 SR+ and Kona Electric Preferred

Other than the product related questions and considerations, I have two other considerations, that are, unfortunately, more difficult to measure, but still critical, when it comes to make a 50k$ decision, they pertain to service and support and company health.
I'm planing to keep this car for 10 years, so in the meantime I will need:
-good warranty and good service availability
-that the company selling the cars stays alive


-On the Hyundai side, other than the fact that EV's are a newish thing for them, I have little doubt that their superb warranty coverage will be fine. I mean, some people buy Hyundai and KIA just because of the warranty and service. There are dealerships everywhere and warranty lasts 8 years for the battery.
One exception is the following: I asked the dealership what is the battery warranty limitations related to battery degradation. As a response, after 2 weeks of asking, I got that there's no real policy regarding how to determine if a battery is too degraded. No 70% threshold like other vendors, like Tesla. Right now is based on "common sense" whatever that means. Not very reassuring.

-On the Tesla side,
--there are many horror stories related to service waiting times, as long as 6 months. I can't find many Canadian sources, so I don't know if that applies to us north of the border or not.
--Apparently Tesla won't allow any corner garage to buy Tesla parts. which makes the previous point more relevant.
--If news outlets in Wall Street have to be believed, Tesla seems to be always a couple of months away from bankruptcy.

If you have any extra info regarding the previous points, please share!
 
Where Tesla shines is OTA software updates to add new features or fix issues.
No other manufacturer comes close. Hyundai has problems just updating their navigation maps according to the folks here.

It's a whole new way of doing business, so I imagine there will be glitches as they work things out.

As for bankruptcy, they recently raised a bunch of cash without any problems.
So I think they're good for a few more years anyway.
 
jedi2b said:
I'm on the fence between the Kona preferred and the Tesla M3 SR+.

I understand that for many, the model 3 is the best thing that happened to humanity in a long time, but... the car seems to be designed and built for Californians.

Let me explain.

It looks like, understandably, Tesla decided to cut some corners with the M3. Unfortunately for us Canadians, the corners cut include:
-no battery heater (it uses a bizarre heat recovery mechanism from the engine, that sounds more like a hack than otherwise)
-no heat pump


Winter range loss is important to me because I only plan to charge at home. I only use the car for 60km commutes and many short trips around town. No need or use for public charge stations, except maybe the once in a bluemoon 200km trip.

I watched dozens of M3 and Kona videos on youtube, trying to find out how much range is lost during winter with these two cars. I focused on videos showing highway driving at 100+ km/hr, heater on, normal driving at around -15C (which is the average of the coldest days where I live)
Here are my unscientific estimates:
-Model 3 range loss = 38%
-Kona range loss = 22%

if you have better estimations, please share!

why are these numbers important? well, the problem is a combination of factors. Take the M3 SR+ for example, it has a theoretical range of 386 km.
Problem is, even Tesla recommends, for daily use, to use around 60% of the battery capacity. From 90% full to 30% full (YMMV as Tesla forums and even Tesla officials seem undecided when it comes to get this kind of info)
-So if we should target using 60% of the battery capacity, the 386km range get'S reduced to 231km.
-Now, if we are talking winter, as per the range loss above, the 231km range will get reduced to around 144km.

In other words, with a M3 SR+, in Canadian winter (-10 C to -20C), I should plan for a max range of 144km between charges...

now take the Kona, same calculations:
-base range 415km.
-let's assume a similar capacity use of 90% to 30% as the M3 (Even if I was unable to find any guidance regarding Hyundai batteries online). that gives a range of 249km
-as per above, winter range could be reduced by 22%, so it provides a winter range of about 194km

In other words, with a Kona, in Canadian winter (-10 C to -20C), I should plan for a max range of 194km between charges...

now add to this that:
-model 3 SR+ would cost me 10.000 CAD more after all is said and done, compared to the Kona preferred
-I, for one, don't care if the car can accelerate to 100km/hr in 5 seconds or 8
-I live in Quebec, pothole republic, and I'm concerned that the more sporty M3 suspension will make me hate the idea of taking the car to the road
-I don't care much for autopilot, but in any case the Kona comes with adaptive cruise control and lane keep assist. Adaptive cruise control would be enough for me, either on Kona or Model 3.

I'm trying to convince the conscious part of my brain that the Tesla is the good choice, but i'm failing.

Please help me!
Click to expand...

Ask yourself this: do I want a BMW or Toyota Camry?



JT
 
brulaz said:
Where Tesla shines is OTA software updates to add new features or fix issues.
No other manufacturer comes close. Hyundai has problems just updating their navigation maps according to the folks here.

It's a whole new way of doing business, so I imagine there will be glitches as they work things out.

As for bankruptcy, they recently raised a bunch of cash without any problems.
So I think they're good for a few more years anyway.
Click to expand...

thanks for the thinking points..

Doing some extra research, I discovered which appears to be a main pain point in the USA: repair times

there seems to be 4 facets to the problem, at least in the USA:
1-there are very few body repair shops accredited by Tesla, because of the aluminium body and the battery safety issues
2-if a body repair shop is available, body repair shops do not have readily access to parts, which causes many months delays
3-for any other issue than body repairs, the only possibility are the Tesla Service Centres, getting an appointment with them seem to be VERY difficult as they are overflowing with cars to fix
4-if you do get an appointment with a Tesla Service Centre, apparently they are subject to the same many-months waiting period for the lack of parts

I can't find many testimonials of these 4 situations happening in Canada, not sure if it is because it doesn't happen here or because we Canadians do not complain as much as our neighbours to the south...

any insights?
 
No idea if the Tesla body repair issue is a problem here in Canada. But aluminum body panels are different. Not all body shops can deal with them.
The battery safety issue applies to all BEVs, so they all may have issues with that.

Not surprised that there are growing pains with the service centres.
Rapidly expanding sales with the Model 3, etc. May take a while to get things organized.
Hopefully you would NOT be one of the unlucky owners to have an accident/problem right off the bat, and in a year or two things might be better?

Have you visited your local Tesla sales/service centre? I would do so to get a feel for how busy it is, and to ask your questions there.

I've been told that for Kia (and prolly Hyundai), the dealer has to have 1 or 2 BEV certified technicians before they can service (and sell?) you a BEV.
And around here the Kia and Hyundai dealers are small and farm out all their body work. Not sure how that will work with their BEVs. Or whether their "trained" technicians are really that good. Would Tesla Techs be any better? No idea ...
 
brulaz said:
No idea if the Tesla body repair issue is a problem here in Canada. But aluminum body panels are different. Not all body shops can deal with them.
The battery safety issue applies to all BEVs, so they all may have issues with that.

Not surprised that there are growing pains with the service centres.
Rapidly expanding sales with the Model 3, etc. May take a while to get things organized.
Hopefully you would NOT be one of the unlucky owners to have an accident/problem right off the bat, and in a year or two things might be better?

Have you visited your local Tesla sales/service centre? I would do so to get a feel for how busy it is, and to ask your questions there.

I've been told that for Kia (and prolly Hyundai), the dealer has to have 1 or 2 BEV certified technicians before they can service (and sell?) you a BEV.
And around here the Kia and Hyundai dealers are small and farm out all their body work. Not sure how that will work with their BEVs. Or whether their "trained" technicians are really that good. Would Tesla Techs be any better? No idea ...
Click to expand...

I actually went to the Tesla Montreal sales centre this Saturday. Very popular.
Very nice cars, not so nice personnel. People I spoke with had this snarky condescending attitude, as if they were doing me a favour.
When I asked for test drive availability he chuckled and said that MAYBE I could schedule a test drive for May 28th (in 2 weeks time).
Catch me totally off guard.

I'm not so worried about quality or malfunction of the car, but moreover to have the bad luck of being rear ended and having to wait 6 months to repair a fender bender.
 
I didn't buy the car to be repaired. After all, it isn't a GM/Ford/FCA/BMW product which of course are only bought to be service center queens.

Bob Wilson
 
jedi2b said:
I actually went to the Tesla Montreal sales centre this Saturday. Very popular.
Very nice cars, not so nice personnel. People I spoke with had this snarky condescending attitude, as if they were doing me a favour.
When I asked for test drive availability he chuckled and said that MAYBE I could schedule a test drive for May 28th (in 2 weeks time).
Catch me totally off guard.

I'm not so worried about quality or malfunction of the car, but moreover to have the bad luck of being rear ended and having to wait 6 months to repair a fender bender.
Click to expand...

Hi. I’m debating between model 3 RWD and Kia Niro ev. Curious which car did you end up getting?


Sent from my iPhone using Inside EVs
 
And apparently now the latest Model 3s are coming out with a heat pump and heated steering wheel, as well as increased range. Looking forward to winter range reports on these.
 
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