Buyer Nightmare. Just found out bad news!
- Thread starter Valente
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Valente
Active Member
Yes, I have proof that I signed 2 contracts with different dates but UNICARS Honda convinced the judge that this is done all the time. She believed them. Just like I believed them when I bought the car. I don't know who is the bigger idiot, me or the judge. Car dealers SUCK!
Valente
Active Member
Trust me. This is the LAST CAR I will ever buy. Problem is, I love the car but now when I look at it, it's a constant reminder of such a dreadful and stressful event I had to go through. Time heals everything? I HOPE!
While I completely support that you are entitled to your $7500, I get why the judge didn’t side with you.
As of right now you have not suffered any loss. You cannot successfully sue for a future loss unless it is a certainty.
You haven’t filed your 2018 return yet, you haven’t had the IRS deny your $7500 yet.
Imagine if the court awarded you $7500, then you filed your 2018 return and got the $7500. After all you do have a sales contract to support you bought it in 2018. If that happened then what? How just the judge reverse the previous award. Alternatively, how does the judge write the order now awarding you $7500 but contingent on you filing your 2018 and being denied the credit.
Why did you sue so quickly? What is your statute of limitations on civil claims? Here in Canada it is 2 years so you easily could have waited to see how the tax return actually goes.
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As of right now you have not suffered any loss. You cannot successfully sue for a future loss unless it is a certainty.
You haven’t filed your 2018 return yet, you haven’t had the IRS deny your $7500 yet.
Imagine if the court awarded you $7500, then you filed your 2018 return and got the $7500. After all you do have a sales contract to support you bought it in 2018. If that happened then what? How just the judge reverse the previous award. Alternatively, how does the judge write the order now awarding you $7500 but contingent on you filing your 2018 and being denied the credit.
Why did you sue so quickly? What is your statute of limitations on civil claims? Here in Canada it is 2 years so you easily could have waited to see how the tax return actually goes.
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Valente
Active Member
Actually, that's sort of the way the judge explained it. However, I did have my accountant create a potential future tax return without any business deductions which I know I will have none this year. He approximated that I would owe about $6000-$7000 next year based on my potential 2018 earnings. The judge just brushed it off. Even half of that would help. EVERYONE pays taxes. It's hard to predict anything. Hell - I'm pushing 80. I may not even be alive next year! But I should have at least have gotten something for all the crap they put me through but that's now how small claims works. Its just about money- not emotion. Frankly, I was just pissed that the dealership was so smug about this whole thing. If they do it to me, they'll do it to someone else. I read where dealers get kickbacks from high sales quotas. So the dealership made money at my expense. The statute of limitations on something like this is one year.
I agree. I think you should file for the rebate next year. You said you're 80. What are the fools at IRS going to do? Lock you away for the rest of your life??? At worst, IRS takes the $7500 back in 2020. But I would be 99% certain that won't happen. If you can deal with 1% uncertainty, and at your age, you have earned the right to make that decision, then file away next year. You have a contract that shows the date of purchase. Two, in fact. I'd feel lucky that I could claim the rebate in either year with those documents.
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Valente
Active Member
No. I already did my 2017 taxes. I purchased a lot of business deductions last year so I don't need the $7500 credit for last year - I need it for this year. That's why I purchased the car on Jan 1st. But the dealer sent in the fake DMV 2017 contract. I do think they may have gotten the $7500 tax credit for themselves.
It doesn’t matter what the DMV records say. It is a question of fact what year you purchased the vehicle.
The DMV records are just one piece of evidence in support of a fact. Your January 1 invoice is another. The dealership could also write a letter if the IRS questions your claim that the vehicle was inadvertently registered to the wrong year.
There would also be the court records from your failed case. Unless the dealership testified that you created the false invoice and fraudulently signed the sales manager’s that agreement is a pretty compelling piece of evidence.
I could keep going on, but you get the idea. Just claim the credit on your 2018 return and only if the IRS decides to challenge you do you potentially have an issue. And even then I don’t see it being too hard to win against the IRS.
That was why I previously suggested you put the small claims case on hold because it would be a waste at this point in time.
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The DMV records are just one piece of evidence in support of a fact. Your January 1 invoice is another. The dealership could also write a letter if the IRS questions your claim that the vehicle was inadvertently registered to the wrong year.
There would also be the court records from your failed case. Unless the dealership testified that you created the false invoice and fraudulently signed the sales manager’s that agreement is a pretty compelling piece of evidence.
I could keep going on, but you get the idea. Just claim the credit on your 2018 return and only if the IRS decides to challenge you do you potentially have an issue. And even then I don’t see it being too hard to win against the IRS.
That was why I previously suggested you put the small claims case on hold because it would be a waste at this point in time.
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BillInArkansas
New Member
My dealer expected my vehicle to arrive in late January. We signed all the papers (so they could meet their quota). It arrived a month later. The dealer turned in all the papers with the January date, including the financing papers. I asked about it when I picked up the car in late February, as I didn’t want to pay an extra month’s interest on a car I didn’t have and the salesman said that they would fix that. When I got the final paperwork (they mailed the papers to me), it wasn’t fixed. I got the bill for the first payment about a week after I got the car (before they mailed me the paperwork to register it). I complained again and the dealer agreed to make 1/2 my first payment. I wasn’t out $7,500, but was really happy to see the dealer take some responsibility for their actions.
I agree with Mikep00, you should take the tax credit on your 2018 return. That’s your tax return, you believe you bought the car in 2018, you did take delivery in 2018 and can prove it. I think you’d have a lot better luck showing the IRS when you bought the car than you had with the judge and the probability of your having to do that is probably really low. You don’t read much about the IRS auditing people who don’t owe much tax!
I agree with Mikep00, you should take the tax credit on your 2018 return. That’s your tax return, you believe you bought the car in 2018, you did take delivery in 2018 and can prove it. I think you’d have a lot better luck showing the IRS when you bought the car than you had with the judge and the probability of your having to do that is probably really low. You don’t read much about the IRS auditing people who don’t owe much tax!
The dealer can’t get the credit. Even in a lease situation, the lender is the one who gets the credit. The dealer gets nothing.
If the dealers could pull any type of shady deal to get the credit for themselves, they would be doing it all over the place. Dealers are the worst.
Check with your CPA. If you can show by sales contract and maybe down payment check or transaction that you had no financial liability for the car until 1/1/18, you probably have a strong argument for claiming it this year. I don’t think the IRS is sophisticated enough to compare the vin on your tax form to the DMV database to dispute your claim.
Good luck either way.
If the dealers could pull any type of shady deal to get the credit for themselves, they would be doing it all over the place. Dealers are the worst.
Check with your CPA. If you can show by sales contract and maybe down payment check or transaction that you had no financial liability for the car until 1/1/18, you probably have a strong argument for claiming it this year. I don’t think the IRS is sophisticated enough to compare the vin on your tax form to the DMV database to dispute your claim.
Good luck either way.
Exactly. You have documentation that supports you for either 2017 or 2018 tax years. Not often that happens… you put it in service on 1/1/18, and that is all IRS cares about.
Pushmi-Pullyu
Well-Known Member
Try as I might, I can't figure out how the judge could possibly come to that conclusion.
I'm very disappointed to learn this was the outcome. Clearly justice has not prevailed.
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Try as I might, I can't figure out how the judge could possibly come to that conclusion.
I'm very disappointed to learn this was the outcome. Clearly justice has not prevailed.
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How can you not understand the judge’s ruling? Given how much of our lives are influenced by the law, I think it is beneficial for everyone to learn how the law actually works.
The judge’s comments were for the ‘case at bar’ (the case in front of him/her).
Introducing a document at trial is introducing evidence in support of a fact you are trying to prove. Introducing a fraudulent document at trial that you know it falsely reflects a fact is perjury. The judge is correct to point that out.
It is a separate issue (separate case) whether the documentation supports the dealership committed fraud. The judge was not being asked to decide on a case of fraud, this was a small claims case dealing with the law of torts and whether the plaintiff suffered damages.
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PHEV Newbie
Well-Known Member
Frugality is the key attribute of responsible citizens!