Best mode for long upgrades

neal adkins

neal adkins

Active Member
I thought i would share something i stumbled into when doing a long climb of about 6% upgrade for about 15 miles. This would not nessacarily apply to short climbs. I had the thought at the beginning of the climb to use hv charge and sport mode (soc was 50%), Since fuel economy is not very good anyways when using ice to climb in a 4k lb car. The result was improved performance. It kept my desired speed of 65 mph with no angry bees. The battery never was depleted during the climb, though it was around 30% when i reached the top. I think this worked good because the battery rapidly depletes at high speeds when climbing. As standard hv mode tries to maintain soc and speed, ice revs higher and the battery depletes faster. I have done this experiment 3 times now and prefer hv charge/sport mode for this 15 long 6% climb. I felt this was worth sharing because some people have been rather uncomfortable with the cars performance in long climbs.
 
fotomoto said:
Is this the "infamous" grapevine section of interstate I frequently hear about?
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If you are getting "angry bees" you do not have enough battery. If you know your trip is longer than your EV range, use HV from the beginning of the trip - first button you press after the start button. I live in Colorado and go over the passes often. Never have I had the engine rev high. If you drive in EV and then go to HV on a long climb you will not have the battery with enough charge.
 
stacey burke said:
If you are getting "angry bees" you do not have enough battery. If you know your trip is longer than your EV range, use HV from the beginning of the trip - first button you press after the start button. I live in Colorado and go over the passes often. Never have I had the engine rev high. If you drive in EV and then go to HV on a long climb you will not have the battery with enough charge.
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I know what you mean. This climb is in the middle of a 200 mile trip. So i use some ev in town. just use hv charge/sport in the climb when battery is below 58%.
 
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neal adkins said:
As standard hv mode tries to maintain soc and speed, ice revs higher and the battery depletes faster.
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This comparison of HV mode to HV charge mode does not quite make sense to me: The implication is that HV charge mode runs with lower RPM's, even though it is trying to build charge.

I agree that both modes will lose SOC, but I thought HV Charge mode would respond with higher RPM's. (Since it is trying to build charge, rather than just maintain.)

Do you have actual RPM data (OBDII) to back this up, or is it your ear?

HV mode does have the RPM jump, when it gives up on gear mode: This makes the RPM increase sound worse. My hill climb method is to reset HV, stay in gear mode, and keep the RPM's low.
 
neal adkins said:
I know what you mean. This climb is in the middle of a 200 mile trip. So i use some ev in town. just use hv charge/sport in the climb when battery is below 58%.
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I have never used HV charge! worst way to get the best mileage. I use HV sport anytime my trip will be longer than me EV range. I press HV as soon as I start the car and keep the battery at the highest charge I can for mountains, merging, passing.
 
ClarityBill said:
This comparison of HV mode to HV charge mode does not quite make sense to me: The implication is that HV charge mode runs with lower RPM's, even though it is trying to build charge.

I agree that both modes will lose SOC, but I thought HV Charge mode would respond with higher RPM's. (Since it is trying to build charge, rather than just maintain.)

Do you have actual RPM data (OBDII) to back this up, or is it your ear?

HV mode does have the RPM jump, when it gives up on gear mode: This makes the RPM increase sound worse. My hill climb method is to reset HV, stay in gear mode, and keep the RPM's low.
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I think what it comes down to is that standard hv doesn't charge battery fast enough and it gets depleted before i reach fhe top. That is when it gets interesting. Slugish performance with even higher revving. So you are correct that both ways will rev. But once battery is depleted in hv mode you lose alot of power. But hv charge in sport mode doesn't allow the battery to deplete before i reach the top. So the ice and traction motor work in tandem all the way up.
 
neal adkins said:
I think what it comes down to is that standard hv doesn't charge battery fast enough and it gets depleted before i reach fhe top. That is when it gets interesting. Slugish performance with even higher revving. So you are correct that both ways will rev. But once battery is depleted in hv mode you lose alot of power. But hv charge in sport mode doesn't allow the battery to deplete before i reach the top. So the ice and traction motor work in tandem all the way up.
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Again, if you start your trip in HV the car will keep the battery charge level high and you will not need to use HV charge. Start HV when you start your trip...
 
neal adkins said:
I think what it comes down to is that standard hv doesn't charge battery fast enough and it gets depleted before i reach fhe top. That is when it gets interesting. Slugish performance with even higher revving. So you are correct that both ways will rev. But once battery is depleted in hv mode you lose alot of power. But hv charge in sport mode doesn't allow the battery to deplete before i reach the top. So the ice and traction motor work in tandem all the way up.
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That makes sense. The goal is to have some battery remaining to the top of a long hill. Charge mode will bring in the RPM's earlier in the process. So the ice and traction motor work in tandem all the way up.
 
neal adkins said:
Its the laguna moutain between Elcentro California and San Diego. But i have also heard lots about the grape vine. That upgrade is about 6 miles.

No. I also have heard lotz about the grape vine
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Could it have been the Jacumba Mountain Range? If so I posted something about my trip up those. The mountains start in Ocotillo CA and end in In-koPa.
 
I live rather close to there, east of the mountains right off I8. Next time you pass through let me know. So I have to admit, I'm not a fan of driving my new clarity up that grade. The wife's SUV (traverse) doesn't miss a beat so we usually drive that when we go to San Diego. I never thought of using HV charge while climbing.
 
hamr4267 said:
I live rather close to there, east of the mountains right off I8. Next time you pass through let me know. So I have to admit, I'm not a fan of driving my new clarity up that grade. The wife's SUV (traverse) doesn't miss a beat so we usually drive that when we go to San Diego. I never thought of using HV charge while climbing.
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Even if you use regular hv with a full battery it still gets marginal fuel economy up that grade. So you use a little more gas in hv charge but have some ev range when you reach the top. Be sure to use sport mode/hv charge together for best performance.
 
ClarityBill said:
This comparison of HV mode to HV charge mode does not quite make sense to me: The implication is that HV charge mode runs with lower RPM's, even though it is trying to build charge.

I agree that both modes will lose SOC, but I thought HV Charge mode would respond with higher RPM's. (Since it is trying to build charge, rather than just maintain.)

Do you have actual RPM data (OBDII) to back this up, or is it your ear?

HV mode does have the RPM jump, when it gives up on gear mode: This makes the RPM increase sound worse. My hill climb method is to reset HV, stay in gear mode, and keep the RPM's low.
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ClarityBill

The link below is to some data taken whilst in HV charge mode. One data run not conclusive but it shows what it shows.

https://insideevsforum.com/community/index.php?threads/clarity-issues.368/page-36#post-54842

Hope this helps.
 
stacey burke said:
I have never used HV charge! worst way to get the best mileage. I use HV sport anytime my trip will be longer than me EV range. I press HV as soon as I start the car and keep the battery at the highest charge I can for mountains, merging, passing.
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Many people think using ice is the devil. But the Clarity phev's longevity is better served using the ice in an intelligent way. Avoiding extreme battery draw for long periods of time(such as occurs during a long climb) will help protect your battery. Just like most don't waste the battery at highway speed, you can avoid excessive battery depletion by using charge stratigically. If i am driving 100 at 55 mph i could do about 55 miles ev then do hv charge for about 40 miles and use about 1.5 gallons of fuel and be back up to 30 miles ev range( thats how my car performs in my climate). That nets about 67mpg for that cycle. The next cycle would be 30 miles ev then 40 miles charge mode for 70 miles total at the same 1.5 gallons of fuel = about 46.6 mpg. Thats superior to the 40 mpg i get in strictly hv mode.
 
neal adkins said:
Many people think using ice is the devil. But the Clarity phev's longevity is better served using the ice in an intelligent way. Avoiding extreme battery draw for long periods of time(such as occurs during a long climb) will help protect your battery. Just like most don't waste the battery at highway speed, you can avoid excessive battery depletion by using charge stratigically. If i am driving 100 at 55 mph i could do about 55 miles ev then do hv charge for about 40 miles and use about 1.5 gallons of fuel and be back up to 30 miles ev range( thats how my car performs in my climate). That nets about 67mpg for that cycle. The next cycle would be 30 miles ev then 40 miles charge mode for 70 miles total at the same 1.5 gallons of fuel = about 46.6 mpg. Thats superior to the 40 mpg i get in strictly hv mode.
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Why not start out in HV, save the battery for when you need it. At the end of the trip switch to EV and use it when you are within EV range of your destination? All posts and reading show that using HV charge is the LEAST effective way to use EV. Using EV charge means you have the engine running at a high rev to give power + charging the battery. In HV I have never had my car go into a high rev even when I drive over the Continental Divide, over several very steep passes.
 
I see this as a way to stabilize engine rpm to a more fixed level, if that’s important to you. For random example Instead of the engine rpm varying from 2k to 4,500k RPM thru the climb, you lock it into 3,250 instead. Assuming you’re in HV mode anyway, I highly doubt it saves any fuel, or uses any extra fuel, or adds or detracts from engine life at the end of the day...

You’re being proactive and telling it to rev higher early and hold it there, with no peaks and valleys on the rpm chart. Otherwise if HV charge is not used the car is being reactive, and may at times rev higher to replace lost charge since it didn’t realize how long this hill is turning out to be.

An interesting preference if one should choose to try it. I see nothing to gain and nothing to lose...
 
stacey burke said:
Why not start out in HV, save the battery for when you need it. At the end of the trip switch to EV and use it when you are within EV range of your destination? All posts and reading show that using HV charge is the LEAST effective way to use EV. Using EV charge means you have the engine running at a high rev to give power + charging the battery. In HV I have never had my car go into a high rev even when I drive over the Continental Divide, over several very steep passes.
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My car (even at near full soc) on this particular long climb didn't perform that great after just a few miles. It was struggling to maintain the 65mph. I saw this on several trips up this grade. I tried sport mode in ev and hv. Same result.
 
craze1cars said:
I see this as a way to stabilize engine rpm to a more fixed level, if that’s important to you. For random example Instead of the engine rpm varying from 2k to 4,500k RPM thru the climb, you lock it into 3,250 instead. Assuming you’re in HV mode anyway, I highly doubt it saves any fuel, or uses any extra fuel, or adds or detracts from engine life at the end of the day...

You’re being proactive and telling it to rev higher early and hold it there, with no peaks and valleys on the rpm chart. Otherwise if HV charge is not used the car is being reactive, and may at times rev higher to replace lost charge since it didn’t realize how long this hill is turning out to be.

An interesting preference if one should choose to try it. I see nothing to gain and nothing to lose...
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One member has complained about battery degradation. He does 2 or 3 trips up a grade each day. Mostly uses electric.
 
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