Battery swapping proven to be a winner, Nio provides average of 68,084 battery swap services per day

[OneEV]

Sounds swell, and I used to feel the same way. The problem is cost and bulk. We are talking 5 minutes to swap what should be $15-$20 worth of power by replacing an extremely large bulky heavy battery pack. Swapping 100 grosses around maybe $2000, and requires heavy equipment. Now I never have the same battery in my car, I'm bolting and cabling a new pack every few days. Compare to a station with enough local battery storage to fill up the pack in the car with with a smallish cable using power harvested off-peak. Gross the same money with a fraction of the infrastructure.

Charging is very very expensive , are you familair with demand charges? This is the problem with DCFC (froma business perspective)


However, demand charges on electric bills have emerged as a major barrier to regional DCFC development: differing rates are offered for EV charging throughout regional corridors, and this assessment finds that demand charges account for nearly 74 percent of a DCFC station's average bill.

Demand Charges and Electric Vehicle Fast-Charging - NASEO


However, an EV charging station requires a massive amount of power, similar to what’s required for a small factory or big box store. The California Public Utilities Commission estimates that California alone will have to spend $50 billion by 2035 in distribution grid upgrades to meet its ambitious electrification goals. Chargers ranging from 150 kW to 350 kW are now becoming the norm at public charging stations, and under the National Electric Vehicle Infrastructure Program, sites must provide a minimum of 600 kW of power output to charge four EVs simultaneously. As such, fast charging stations can incur very high energy costs, namely in the form of demand charges. These high energy costs threaten the economic viability of fast charging stations.



Battery swapping rarely incurs demand charges because they start the day with roughly 25 fully charged batteries that charged slow speed at discount rate at night and still low charge speed as they are swapped during the day. So much easier to reach profitability than a string of 25 DCFC .

 

[OneEV]

Patience Grasshopper!

First they had to come up with a plan to submit to the federal government.
Second, the states had to take public comment.
Third, they had to decide in general area where the stations where going to go.
Fourth, the had to receive proposals and verify they can do the job.
Fifth, they had to send out the money.
Sixth, you have to wait for the power companies to decide if they want to spend the money to upgrade their network.
Seventh, you have to wait for the power companies to upgrade their network.
Eight, you have to have the charging equipment to install.

So it takes a while. They may get a few more in the ground by the end of the year, but I suspect the main first build out will happen next year.

Half charging the batteries, Nio could provide 136,168 battery swaps per day.

Bob Wilson

Half charging the batteries, Nio could provide 136,168 battery swaps per day.

Bob Wilson

ummmm..... Nio's battery swap stations provided an average of 68,084 services per day in May, with a vehicle getting a fully charged battery via battery swap every 1.26 seconds, the company said.

every 1.26 seconds a fully charged battery ..

 

[Keith Smith]

The federal government should not be involved in building a charging infrastructure in any kind. If it would just get out of the way it might help. Charging infrastructure capital costs are falling as the equipment costs go lower and lower. The EV charging paradigm is different from fossil fueled vehicles, you don't need as much infrastructure along the roads, since you can easily charge at much lower cost albeit at slower rates at home. The bulk of EV owners do not need DC fast charging for the bulk of their charging needs, and bulk electricity needs to be provided by transmission lines vs fuel trucks and underground tanks.

If the government would just quit with the pressure and stupidity, the EV industry will be just fine. The current EV charging infrastructure is at a point where it is adequate to get you anywhere, though not optimal. I'm really looking forward the government charging stations, I just can't wait to have one in the middle of cornfields in IOWA, in the middle of the various lakes strewn across the nation, and blanketed thru the "underprivileged" areas of the major metro's where nobody can afford to own one. It will be a total boondoggle , and the cost of each station is going to be orders of magnitude more than what the various charging companies can put them in for.

I'm seeing charging stations being built all over the place, so apparently the stuff you've outlined is not that difficult for anyone except the government.

 

[Keith Smith]

ummmm..... Nio's battery swap stations provided an average of 68,084 services per day in May, with a vehicle getting a fully charged battery via battery swap every 1.26 seconds, the company said.

every 1.26 seconds a fully charged battery ..

Figures don't lie, but you can make something look much bigger than it is. This is a drop in the bucket. The article states around 400 swaps per station. A random gas station on I-10 at the border of CA/AZ fills 400 cars in 20 minutes. The EA and Tesla stations around there charge 40 or so vehicles every thirty minutes or so. Logistically swapping bulky batteries is just is not going to work. What do you do if you run out of batteries? Now I have a spare for every car on the road, but you still have to fill them with leccy. It's like swapping an entire gas tank full of gas instead of just pouring fresh gas in the empty tank. If I need more batteries at the AZ/CA border because of the holiday now I need to ship extra bulky batteries to that point, then after the holiday, ship them back to the local areas where they are needed during the week. I can't just send an extra tanker truck or two of fuel during the week before the holiday or make arrangements to divert more power to the grid in that area.

The logistics of battery swap for cars sucks.

 

[Keith Smith]

Not to mention handling a 300-800v battery packed with 60-150KWH of power. God help you if it falls off a rack or get's dropped and short circuits.

 

[Keith Smith]

RE: Demand. Yep, future charging stations are likely to have supplemental batteries ala tesla. These batteries will not have to be compact, nor will they need to move around or be constantly handled by heavy equipment. They will be prefilled for use during high demand times, likely supplemented with Solar where practicable. Much more sensible once you have the core infrastruture in. Cables instead of forklifts and harnesses. You seriously don't need to be shuffling around fully charged high density storage batteries with heavy equipment. I do realize I've never seen a forklift drive a fork thru a wall... No wait. It's really just a power management problem, it will be figured out. Once you dig down, battery swapping is just not a very good idea, made even worse by a complete lack of standardization of the batteries themselves. Keep in mind the average EV battery case is normally custom to allow cramming as many cells as possible on the chassis. Further the more generic the pack the fewer electrons you are going to end up with in the car fully charged.

200+ Mega Joules of energy in a 60 KWH battery that weighs over 1000lbs.

 

[marshall]

I'm seeing charging stations being built all over the place, so apparently the stuff you've outlined is not that difficult for anyone except the government

Outside of the Tesla locations, almost all of the charging stations in Washing state were paid for by the state government or a settlement with the government.

 

[bwilson4web]

I still have no interest in moving any of my TSLA stock into NIO.

Bob Wilson