Anyone Got an AeroVironment EVSE, and/or Dead 12v Battery Issues?

[Toolworker]

My 12v battery has gone dead twice in 2 1/2 months of ownership, and tried to do it a third time. My latest suspect is an interaction with my AeroVironment EVSE-RS.

Are you having a similar problem? Or do you have an AeroVironment and no problem?

 

[dndrich]

I have had an Aerovironment for 7 years with a Leaf, Bolt, and now the Kona with no issues at all.

 

[mikeselectricstuff]

There are plenty of reports of dead 12v batteries, unlikely to be anything to do with charging, most likely there are some circumstances where the car doesn't go fully to sleep, and no fall-back to shut down when battery voltage goes too low.

 

[Toolworker]

Here's what led me to wonder about an interaction with the EVSE:

The EVSE was plugged in overnight. Around 3 am, the 12v battery started discharging. At 8 am, I checked it and saw that the EVSE and charge port were in a loop. The charge port came on (white) for 5 seconds or so, then turned off and the Ready to Charge indicator on the EVSE went off. (The car refused the charge because it is set to limit at 80% SOC.) Then after 5 or so seconds, Ready to Charge went back on and the charge port lit up white. This kept repeating.

I pulled the charge cord for a few seconds, put it back, and the looping stopped. So did the discharge.

(Then the Aux Battery Saver function came on around 5 pm and charged up the 12v battery.)

I don't know enough to understand what happened, but here's a possible explanation: Something happened at 3 am to make the EVSE think there was a charging fault, so it turned off Ready to Charge momentarily and then tried again. Whatever it saw still looked like a fault, so it looped. Each time the 240v supply came back on, the vehicle did something that required 12v power.

 

[Jamas]

It's nice that you were able to capture this data. There could very well be a causal relationship between the charging loop and the discharge of the 12v battery. The question now is whether the fault is with the Aerovironment, the car, or some sort of incompatability between the two. Does the Aerovironment have the ability to perform firmware updates in case of known bugs? Might be worth inquiring.

 

[KiwiME]

That certainly is problematic.
This is where a simple J1771 protocol analyser would come in handy. My impressions are that an EVSE, being fairly dumb compared with the EV, would sit at Status C whenever plugged into the car. My supplied Ratio brand trickle charger for example does not care about procedure. On bench testing it goes straight into supplying power if the appropriate CP resistance is encountered. It doesn't check N to G impedance.

Once the EV is detected and the ground test completes (if any) there is no reason not to proceed to C, irrespective of whether current is drawn. It is the EV's business alone what and when it takes advantage of the available maximum offered current. The EVSE should sit there forever waiting, noting that my local public AC EVSE times out after 1 minute.

It sounds to me that it could be that your EVSE is dropping the 12V DC (status A) after status C is refused and then tries again, making the car reevaluate it's requirements. You'll note if you power off/on the EVSE while plugged in the car wakes up.
I'm not clear on whether plug/unplug does anything additional aside from disconnect/apply that 12VDC but that could be a factor as well. I have a Type 2 so can't comment on all aspects.

 

[Toolworker]

I was able to link up with an engineer from Enel X (successor to AeroVironment). Since the EVSE-RS is JuiceNet enabled, he was able to read the logs, and saw a large number of PlugIn/PlugOut events. But the PlugOut events typically lasted a few hours. They might trigger the discharge behavior, but they're not recording it.

The on-off loop takes about 24 seconds. Here's what it looks like:



He thought it might be a partially inserted charging handle. The handle is solidly inserted, but that doesn't rule out a bad contact. After one dead battery a month ago, the 12v discharge has recurred three times in the past three days, which might suggest a component failure (including a connector).

Now I'm trying the charge cord that came with the car, plugged into 240v, and will give it a day or two to see if the problem recurs.

 

[KiwiME]

Once the EV is detected and the ground test completes (if any) there is no reason not to proceed to C, irrespective of whether current is drawn. It is the EV's business alone what and when it takes advantage of the available maximum offered current. The EVSE should sit there forever waiting, ...

Middle of the night realised that this is not true, my EVSE sits at Status A or B when left plugged in waiting for the car's timer. That means the contactor is open and it may or may not be advertising the available current, not that it matters. And the documentation says it does a G-N test, which I can see it completes only on each power-on.

As for the Aerovironment EVSE, looking at the manual online I suspect that "Ready to Charge" could mean that the ground test has completed successfully but I have no idea how that is done with a split phase 240V supply, or if the car must be connected for that to commence. Given the (I'm assuming) intermittent nature of this fault I would look at the ground connections for a start.

 

[electriceddy]

I was able to link up with an engineer from Enel X (successor to AeroVironment). Since the EVSE-RS is JuiceNet enabled, he was able to read the logs, and saw a large number of PlugIn/PlugOut events. But the PlugOut events typically lasted a few hours. They might trigger the discharge behavior, but they're not recording it.

The on-off loop takes about 24 seconds. Here's what it looks like:



He thought it might be a partially inserted charging handle. The handle is solidly inserted, but that doesn't rule out a bad contact. After one dead battery a month ago, the 12v discharge has recurred three times in the past three days, which might suggest a component failure (including a connector).

Now I'm trying the charge cord that came with the car, plugged into 240v, and will give it a day or two to see if the problem recurs.

Definitely looks like communication going on and the car is responding with the white charge port light. If this happens all night long plugged in but not charging I would say you may be correct in assuming a substantial 12 V draw.
I have not used my timed charge scheduler nor left my car plugged in past the point of achieving the desired level of charge.
Please do let us know if the L1 EVSE supplied by Hyundai does the same thing.
BTW all the "manual" tells us that if the white light is on the charging port is open (charging standby)

 

[ehatch]

AeroVironment

I had the now discontinued AeroVironment TurboCord Portable EVSE 240v. It was awful,the cord rated for -40C/-40F if I remember correctly.It couldn't handle it as it tangled to a point where the cord lost length if it dipped to about -10C/14F. I don't think it had issues with charging,there were issues with the AeroVironment wallmounted evse as they would fault,fairly often.

 

[ehatch]

I was able to link up with an engineer from Enel X (successor to AeroVironment). Since the EVSE-RS is JuiceNet enabled, he was able to read the logs, and saw a large number of PlugIn/PlugOut events. But the PlugOut events typically lasted a few hours. They might trigger the discharge behavior, but they're not recording it.

The on-off loop takes about 24 seconds. Here's what it looks like:



He thought it might be a partially inserted charging handle. The handle is solidly inserted, but that doesn't rule out a bad contact. After one dead battery a month ago, the 12v discharge has recurred three times in the past three days, which might suggest a component failure (including a connector).

Now I'm trying the charge cord that came with the car, plugged into 240v, and will give it a day or two to see if the problem recurs.

@KiwiME I think the 12V does play a part in the charging,BMS management.
I have actually used the included 12V this past summer,no problem,all the way to 100% .I didn't use the timer in the Kona electric to initiate the charge though.

The AeroViornment situation,have you experienced this using any other L2? It could be an issue with the CMC [cell management controller],or BMC[battery management controller].How these are receiving the voltage as it passes through.Where either the CMC/BMC initiates a shutdown to protect the Li.12V comes into play to manage this process.

Can anyone locate a technical diagram for the Kona that includes the CCS port connecting to the wiring harness to the controller to the Li...

 

[hobbit]

The whole thing soup-to-nuts? Probably not, that is scattered across many different
pages at techinfo. There's a special set of 12V circuits, grouped under "IG3", that come
on when the car is charging [but otherwise off] and fire up the BMS, LDC, dash display,
etc. Since the main relays are closed to enable charging anyway, the 12V supply comes
out of the LDC like usual [but at a reduced voltage]. All the EVSE supplies is AC.

If you clarify the question one of us might be able to look more stuff up. I would also
seriously disable that "battery saver", it seems to be more a liability than an asset
in practice.

_H*

 

[Toolworker]

Now I'm trying the charge cord that came with the car, plugged into 240v, and will give it a day or two to see if the problem recurs.

Not to leave things hanging, this discussion continues here in the 12v Battery thread.

Bottom line - my car also fails to run Aux Battery Saver when an EVSE is plugged in, which might be related to my AeroVironment EVSE occasionally draining the 12v battery completely.