Alternatives to OEM tires

[Kirk w Olsen]

Low rolling friction may mean longer stopping distance especially in snow, ice or even rain. Save money great but do not get killed doing it.
For me I put on winter siped tires and summer rain tires. If I get lower rolling but good at what they need to do, bonus.
This also forces balance and alignment checks 2x per year so max tire life with even wear.
Bonus pro tip. Hang on back wall of garage in bags to protect from ozone and a bumper for bad parkers aka kids!

 

[Landshark]

Low rolling friction may mean longer stopping distance especially in snow, ice or even rain. Save money great but do not get killed doing it.

This also forces balance and alignment checks 2x per year so max tire life with even wear.

Nothing like a little fear mongering. It’s a miracle anyone riding on low rolling resistance tires is still alive.

For reference, the Michelin Energy Saver A/S has a Traction Rating of A.

Who would willingly subject themselves to balancing their wheels and performing an alignment check twice a year? Our Clarity has had one tire rotation, zero alignment checks and has had the wheels balanced exactly zero times as well. At nearly 4 years and 36,000 miles, there is at least 6/32” of tread remaining on the original tires.

I have more important things to waste my time on that fiddling with the tires.

 

[d3xbot]

I don't know if anyone else has posted about it here, but make sure that you get noise dampening tires on your Clarity. These are fairly normal tires but they have noise deadening foam on the inside.

I got my OE Michelins replaced with some low-rolling-resistance Yokohamas and OH MY GOD IT'S SO LOUD. Previously, I could drive and not worry about road noise in the cabin. Now, it's about 15db louder in the cabin between 50 and 80 MPH. It's so loud, my Apple Watch went off and said "Warning! You're in a loud environment".

 

[Robert_Alabama]

I don't know if anyone else has posted about it here, but make sure that you get noise dampening tires on your Clarity. These are fairly normal tires but they have noise deadening foam on the inside.

I got my OE Michelins replaced with some low-rolling-resistance Yokohamas and OH MY GOD IT'S SO LOUD. Previously, I could drive and not worry about road noise in the cabin. Now, it's about 15db louder in the cabin between 50 and 80 MPH. It's so loud, my Apple Watch went off and said "Warning! You're in a loud environment".

I think it may be just the Yokohamas or the tire center may have damaged your resonators in the wheels when they changed out your tires. I have never run the tires with foam inside (I really don't think even the OEM Michelin Energy Saver A/S had this foam - I plan to check my father-in-law's car when the tires are replaced as his still has the OEMs). I've run the non-OEM Michelin Energy Saver A/S for the most part since replacing my OEM tires. They certainly don't have the noise deadening foam inside and no discernable difference in sound level from the OEMs.

 

[Landshark]

Michelin advertises the Pilot Sport EV as having their Acoustic Technology, aka: Foam inside the tire that may delaminate without warning. These tires cost more than an otherwise identical tire that lacks the foam.

Michelin does not advertise the Energy Saver A/S as having the Acoustic Technology, and I have yet to see a tire review, or any vendor selling the tire, that mentions the tire having the technology or being “EV Tuned”.

Look forward to “eyes on” confirmation.

 

[MrFixit]

@Landshark probably won't see this because he 'blocked' me a long time ago...
Here is a major vendor (Tire Rack) who sells both. The "EV tuned" is significantly more expensive (18%)
I circled the key part of the description...

 

[Landshark]

I think it may be just the Yokohamas

That’s entirely possible. We’ve had a number of owners report that non-OEM tires provide a quieter ride than the Energy Savers. And most, if not all, of the other tires are not “EV Tuned”.

Another possibility is that the resonators are tuned to the Honda specified Energy Savers, which could make them less effective on other tires.

 

[D Lab]

Without a standard, meaningful comparisons can be elusive. CR also limited their testing to “Performance” tires. Is there a standard for that?

Interestingly, they included the Michelin Cross Climate 2 in the test. This is a tire that some members of this forum are using. If I recall, it is one of the tires that has reportedly reduced efficiency compared to in the OEM tires. Looking at the chart from the CR testing procedure, we see the Nexus tire at 9.1 and the Michelin tire at 11.1. There is one tire that is a bit of an outlier which comes in at 12.8. The chart also shows the range of 9.1 to 12.8, corresponds to 29mpg and 28mpg respectively. This would put the Michelin tire very close to the middle, or 28.5mpg. That would make the Nexus 5000 approximately 2% more efficient than the Michelin CC2. The CC2, however, may be 8-10% less efficient than the Energy Saver A/S, which theoretically would make the Nexus tire 6-8% less efficient than the OEM tire.

A couple of things we don’t know are the weight of the test vehicle or the tire size used for the testing. Both factors could produce different results than if the test vehicle weighed 4000lbs and was equipped with 235/45-R18 tires. It’s a half baked report, which is why I put little value on the results.

Thanks for the info. My car gets great mileage compared to my V6 Camry, so a couple MPG won't be a big deal. My Rav4 Prime came with $300 apiece Yokohamas, I think rated for only 30k. I think I am going to buy Michelin CrossClimate 2 tires, 60k mile warranty, online for $174 apiece, Costco wants $253 for the same tire. Tires went way up since the last time I bought, I used to get Michelins for around $100 apiece.

 

[Landshark]

My car gets great mileage compared to my V6 Camry, so a couple MPG won't be a big deal.

Our Clarity gets great mileage compared to our other vehicles. That doesn’t inspire me to willingly take measures to reduce its efficiency.

On a daily basis, a couple of MPG’s isn’t a big deal. Over time, it will add up. Quite possibly to an amount that exceeds the money “saved” on the alternative tires.

Now, I know that some owners have worn out the OEM tires in 15K-20K miles, and others have been unable to stop the car in a safe manner or they end up in a ditch whenever they attempt to navigate a curve. Those folks rightfully hold the tire in low regard and should consider another option.

 

[BrianRC]

Michelin is proud of their products and they are priced accordingly. I have a similar history of tire ownership as you. We may have only replaced tires with Michelins on one occasion and that was because Costco had a buy 3 get the 4th free or $150 off deal going.

I had a fun experience at the Sam’s Club Tire Shop today. I had ordered the Nexen’s a few days ago and made an appointment for this morning to have the tires swapped out. The Nexen’s were an incredible deal at $128 each. With the installation package, road hazard warranty, tire disposal etc. including tax the total was like $630. So as I am pulling up at my appointment time, there’s a pretty old guy like in his 70s standing there and the first thing he says as I’m getting out of my car is “What the hell are you doing replacing these fine Micheline tires with these Nexen tires?” I had to laugh. I told him that I had done my homework and read lots of positive reviews on the Internet. I told him about the Consumer Reports article on rolling resistance and the online forum where other Clarity owners had positive reports after installing the Nexens. He didn’t buy any of it. Thought I was crazy or stupid. Then I told him how these Michelins are worthless to me if they wear out after only 16,000 miles! I told him about my experience at the Discount Tire store where they refused to rotate my tires due to too much wear in the front. Well, he got down and measured my front tires and said they were good at 4/32”. So, the guy at Discount Tire was lying to me or using a funny gauge! I asked him if he would rotate the Michelins for me and he said “Sure.” And he would check the balance to boot! Nice guy. Told me he had been in the business for 40 years and told me he has never seen anything good come from replacing Michelins with cheap, Korean tires. So, I’m good to go now for at least another 5,000 miles. I’m still sold on the Nexens but will keep an open mind. And I ordered a tire depth gauge from Amazon. No longer will I trust the tire store guys to measure my tread depth.

 

[MrFixit]

Well, he got down and measured my front tires and said they were good at 4/32”. So, the guy at Discount Tire was lying to me or using a funny gauge!

In my book, 4/32" is not 'good'.
I would be shopping for tires at 4/32" and probably be replacing them at 3/32".
Your wear does seem to be excessive for 16K miles, but then we have seen wide variation within the forum with no consistently good explanation.

 

[Landshark]

So as I am pulling up at my appointment time, there’s a pretty old guy like in his 70s standing there and the first thing he says as I’m getting out of my car is “What the hell are you doing replacing these fine Micheline tires with these Nexen tires?”

Sometimes those old farts can teach a thing or two to a younger fella.

And I ordered a tire depth gauge from Amazon. No longer will I trust the tire store guys to measure my tread depth.

For $.26 you can have two primitive gauges. A penny and a quarter. The distance from the edge of the coin to the top of Mr President’s head is 2/32” and 4/32”, respectively. Simply insert the coin, head first, into the tire groove and view the results. Ten seconds at each tire will give you enough information to know if you’re being hoodwinked at the tire shop.

 

[Roen]

Sometimes those old farts can teach a thing or two to a younger fella.



For $.26 you can have two primitive gauges. A penny and a quarter. The distance from the edge of the coin to the top of Mr President’s head is 2/32” and 4/32”, respectively. Simply insert the coin, head first, into the tire groove and view the results. Ten seconds at each tire will give you enough information to know if you’re being hoodwinked at the tire shop.

But what if you’re Canadian?


Sent from my iPhone using Inside EVs

 

[Landshark]

But what if you’re Canadian?


Sent from my iPhone using Inside EVs

That’s just one of those things you have to accept.

 

[BrianRC]

In my book, 4/32" is not 'good'.
I would be shopping for tires at 4/32" and probably be replacing them at 3/32".
Your wear does seem to be excessive for 16K miles, but then we have seen wide variation within the forum with no consistently good explanation.

The fronts will wear more slowly in the rear while the rears (now fronts) are more like 5/32". I expect to be relacing the set at 3/34" all arouond. I have a guage now so I'll be checking.

 

[Landshark]

Well, I’m disgusted! I just went to America’s Tire for the third tire rotation of my 2020 Clarity with a little over 15,000 miles, and I was told that the fronts are in the “warning zone” and are too worn to rotate!

Most likely, the shop was implementing a relatively new guideline of mounting the tires with the most tread on the rear axle rather than the front axle. Testing has demonstrated that a driver in a passenger vehicle is more likely to lose control during a rear tire failure than a front tire failure. Hence the change in protocol.

As the details flow in, it is now apparent that the tech at America’s Tires was following industry standards. The septuagenarian at Sam’s Club was either going rogue, or Sam isn’t following industry standards.

 

[BrianRC]

I see 2/32" is the legal limit in 42 states. I know the debate around how low to allow tread ware focuses primarily around wet stopping distance. It wont be seriously raining here in Sacramento again until next November. I'm also suspicous about "industry standards" set by market participants who benefit financially by making the "industry standard" more restrictive. Reminds me how Big Pharma decided a few years ago that blood pressure above 120/80 should require medication. Now half the adult population technically requires blood pressure medication. Cui bono? (who benefits?).

 

[Landshark]

I see 2/32" is the legal limit in 42 states. I know the debate around how low to allow tread ware focuses primarily around wet stopping distance. It wont be seriously raining here in Sacramento again until next November. I'm also suspicous about "industry standards" set by market participants who benefit financially by making the "industry standard" more restrictive. Reminds me how Big Pharma decided a few years ago that blood pressure above 120/80 should require medication. Now half the adult population technically requires blood pressure medication. Cui bono? (who benefits?).

To be clear, I’m not suggesting when tires should be replaced. I’m simply sharing with you, a recommendation based on facts and data, as to where tires with more tread should be positioned on a vehicle. If you view that recommendation as a conspiracy, it isn’t likely that anyone will change your mind.

Additionally, this isn’t the place to debate the overall health of Americans or their healthcare choices. That said, the trend is to consume mass quantities and then take a pill to make everything ok. It’s the best of both worlds. Why fight it? (Sarcasm)

 

[Joe17]

The lower the tread the more prone you are to hydoplaning.

 

[Landshark]

This is from TireRack. In many cases you will see this information posed at a tire shop or in the service department of a car dealer. It can also be found on the websites of tire manufacturers and insurance companies.

This very well could be a conspiracy. Perhaps to sell more tires or to see if people will do stupid things. We know they will, often without any prompting.

On the flip side, tire manufacturers, auto makers and professional drivers have conducted tests and their conclusion is to recommend that tires with the most tread remaining be installed on the rear axle.

Yes, this information specifically addresses the installation of 2 new tires. The same principle applies when rotating tires where 2 tires have more tread than the other 2. A tire shop will likely leave the tires with more tread on the rear axle.