$174 Billion for electric vehicle investment

[Recoil45]

If you are worried about manufacturing going over to China, you are way too late. Manufacturing went to China decades ago and the move had nothing to do with air pollution or the Paris Accord. China is quickly outpacing the USA just due to the population size alone and is poised to leapfrog the vehicle emissions problems the USA has because they are heavily investing in electric vehicle infrastructure.

As proven recently this does not need to be the case. Unfortunately emotional thinking has once again taken over and we signed back up for global wealth distribution over American jobs and the economy. All we are doing is shifting global pollution to less developed countries. Someone needs to look at the big picture. But due to illogical emotional thinking we are blind.


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[Recoil45]

not to mention the problems caused by the loss of the ozone layer.

This is a false statement. Below is a link from a left leaning news source, with no agenda to spin facts, proving your statement false. US businesses spent billions on lowering ozone depleting chemicals. On top of that, nearly all damage currently being done to the ozone layer is done by countries that the Paris accord puts less pressure on than the US. This drives down manufacturing costs in those countries and places a huge burden on the US economy. It's absolute madness to allow this.

https://www.pbs.org/video/why-dont-we-hear-about-the-ozone-hole-anymore-goapaj/


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[Recoil45]

Most democrats nowadays are living in under-privileged communities and the last thing they would want is higher gas prices. What American's want is clean air and water and a more stable energy infrastructure and are willing to pay a price for a better world.

.

Seriously???

Underprivileged people want to pay more??


I'm LMAO.


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[Texas Niro EV]

Like I said, Recoil45 is only interested in his own opinions. His opinions appear to be based on conservative conspiracy theories, not facts. It’s a waste of time trying to get Recoil45 to face reality or to show compassion for the human race, they have to be forced into a better world kicking and screaming by people that care a lot more about the world and reality than they do.


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[Texas Niro EV]

Even with energy independence you will have another world war. The two are not connected. We had major wars through history before oil was discovered. Even without solar, wind and battery the US could be energy independent NOW since we technically are, we just export a large amount of our oil for profit purposes.

Do you think IRAN calling for the extermination of all Israelis is because of oil?

Or the rhetoric from North Korea is due to oil?

The next world war is likely due to a preemptive attack by Israel against Iran. Everyone driving a Tesla does not prevent this.


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So you are saying you don’t care about doing anything that might reduce tension in the world and reduce potential for another war. I think billions of people on this planet would strongly disagree with your opinion.


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[Texas Niro EV]

As proven recently this does not need to be the case. Unfortunately emotional thinking has once again taken over and we signed back up for global wealth distribution over American jobs and the economy. All we are doing is shifting global pollution to less developed countries. Someone needs to look at the big picture. But due to illogical emotional thinking we are blind.


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It sounds like you resent under developed countries making progress and competing with the USA. The reality is that the USA has spent billions and fought many wars so that many of those countries could have stable economies. Now that the fruit of our efforts are paying off and many of those countries are able to compete on the world market place, you resent their success.

And to regain our world dominance in manufacturing you want to go back to the good oil days of air pollution, energy insecurity and dependence on other countries for our oil supply. The world has changed and the USA’s position in world has changed forever and you need to except that. The USA can still be a leader in this world but we do that by working with the world, not by building walls and shutting ourselves off from the rest of the world.


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[Texas Niro EV]

This is why you cannot be taken seriously. This is a false statement. Below is a link from a left leaning news source, with no agenda to spin facts, proving your statement false. US businesses spent billions on lowering ozone depleting chemicals. On top of that, nearly all damage currently being done to the ozone layer is done by countries that the Paris accord puts less pressure on than the US. This drives down manufacturing costs in those countries and places a huge burden on the US economy. It's absolute madness to allow this.

https://www.pbs.org/video/why-dont-we-hear-about-the-ozone-hole-anymore-goapaj/


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The ozone depletion is not so much of a problem now because the world has taken action through technology and international agreements, not because the problem just magically disappeared as you seam to indicate. The world overcomes problems by coming together and finding solutions, not by ignoring them.


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[Texas Niro EV]

Seriously???

Underprivileged people want to pay more??


I'm LMAO. Great job, almost off the Troll scale.


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I said AMERICANS, that means the majority of people in the USA. That’s right, a MAJORITY of people in the USA (this obviously doesn’t include you) want a better life for themselves and their children are willing to work and pay for that better world free of air and water pollution. LMAO that.


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[Recoil45]

It sounds like you resent under developed countries making progress and competing with the USA. The reality is that the USA has spent billions and fought many wars so that many of those countries could have stable economies. Now that the fruit of our efforts are paying off and many of those countries are able to compete on the world market place, you resent their success.

And to regain our world dominance in manufacturing you want to go back to the good oil days of air pollution, energy insecurity and dependence on other countries for our oil supply. The world has changed and the USA’s position in world has changed forever and you need to except that. The USA can still be a leader in this world but we do that by working with the world, not by building walls and shutting ourselves off from the rest of the world.


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^
This is a twisted spin.

I want higher polluting countries like China and India to implement our current level of environmentalism so their expenses are more similar to ours. This would actually help to reduce pollution rather than just shifting it to China and India. At the same time it also helps out American workers and our economy. Once they reach our level, we can all go up to the next level together.


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[Recoil45]

The ozone depletion is not so much of a problem now because the world has taken action through technology and international agreements, not because the problem just magically disappeared as you seam to indicate. The world overcomes problems by coming together and finding solutions, not by ignoring them.


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Please quote the words I used to claim the problem magically went away?

You claimed the ozone layer as a current issue in your post. I proved you wrong and explained companies in the US spent billions to solve the issue, not that it magically went away. I also explained that China is currently the biggest offender of Ozone depleting gasses. I then tied this to the Paris Accord that continues to put massive pressure on the US but still allows other countries like China to be held to a lower standard. This is madness.


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[Texas Niro EV]

^
This is a twisted spin.

I want higher polluting countries like China and India to implement our current level of environmentalism so their expenses are more similar to ours. This would actually help to reduce pollution rather than just shifting it to China and India. At the same time it also helps out American workers and our economy. Once they reach our level, we can all go up to the next level together.


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China and India are struggling with much air pollution problems because they were trying to catch up to the USA production levels, that’s true but they also now have vehicle electrification plans that are much more aggressive than the ones in the USA. So what’s your spin, to roll back USA emission controls until our cities are just polluted as those in India and China? I would rather have clean air and energy security in the USA now and let the rest of the world catch up when they can.


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[Recoil45]

China and India are struggling with much air pollution problems because they were trying to catch up to the USA production levels, that’s true but they also now have vehicle electrification plans that are much more aggressive than the ones in the USA. So what’s your spin, to roll back USA emission controls until our cities are just polluted as those in India and China? I would rather have clean air and energy security in the USA now and let the rest of the world catch up when they can.


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No, hold our environmental standards where they are (amongst the best in the world) until countries like China and India spend billions getting up to our standards and bear the same continuing financial burden to keep them there. We should also consider heavy tariffs on imported products that were produced under lower emissions standards. Otherwise we continue to just shift pollution to other countries.

Claiming I don't want clean air is false.


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[Texas Niro EV]

Please quote the words I used to claim the problem magically went away?

You claimed the ozone layer as a current issue in your post. I proved you wrong and explained companies in the US spent billions to solve the issue, not that it magically went away. I also explained that China is currently the biggest offender of Ozone depleting gasses. I then tied this to the Paris Accord that continues to put massive pressure on the US but still allows other countries like China to be held to a lower standard. This is madness.

You did not prove me wrong in any way. What I said was "not to mention the problems caused by the loss of the ozone layer" and your response was, "This is a false statement". Your response indicates that you did not believe in the science related to ozone layer depletion. Then you appeared to perform a back flip and supported MY argument by identifying "US businesses spent billions on lowering ozone depleting chemicals" and by stating "nearly all damage currently being done to the ozone layer is done by countries that the Paris accord puts less pressure on.

I seriously doubt that you have any idea whether China is the biggest offender of ozone depleting gasses and I also seriously doubt that you have any idea exactly what the China or the USA have agreed to in the Paris Accord. Your statements appear to be just baseless rhetoric designed to support your conspiracy theories. BTW, the treaty regulating ozone depleting substances was the 1988 Montreal Protocol treaty and has not the Paris Accord.

 

[Texas Niro EV]

No, hold our environmental standards where they are (amongst the best in the world) until countries like China and India spend billions getting up to our standards and bear the same continuing financial burden to keep them there. We should also consider heavy tariffs on imported products that were produced under lower emissions standards. Otherwise we continue to just shift pollution to other countries.

Our environmental standards suck and if they are the amongst in the world then I pity to world. Every year major population centers in the USA get more and more polluted as reported by the EPA's Non-Attainment reports. The USA can ill afford a heavy tariff war with China or with any other country, that's way trying to work these issues over treaties like the Paris Accords is so important.

Claiming I don't want clean air is false.

You sure don't want to pay for clean air. Nothing comes for free in this world. Instead of touting baseless, conservative, conspiracy theories you need to start making socially responsible choices however tough they may be.

 

[CR EV]

There is an ecological cost to transporting goods from overseas. I would be in favor of an eco-tax on imported goods based on how they were transported. Would spur developments like New Cargo Ship: Wind-Powered Sailboat Can Carry 7,000 Cars (popularmechanics.com)

I think we can walk and chew gum at the same time: address eco-impacts of imports and upgrade our infrastructure.

 

[Recoil45]

You did not prove me wrong in any way. What I said was "not to mention the problems caused by the loss of the ozone layer" and your response was, "This is a false statement". Your response indicates that you did

False again. I provided a link proving the Ozone layer is currently reasonably healthy. You are free to do your own research on the current state of the Ozone layer.

I seriously doubt that you have any idea whether China is the biggest offender of ozone depleting gasses .

You are dishonest and have reading comprehension issues. This is my last post in my discussion with you on this subject.

This is fact I can backup and there are dozens of other articles about China and their blatant disregard for the environment. If you want to continue to support practices that shift pollution to China and put Americans out of work, that's your right.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/23/chi...ouse-gas-that-destroys-ozone-layer-study.html

https://nationalpost.com/news/world...-secretly-emitting-banned-ozone-depleting-gas

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[Recoil45]

There is an ecological cost to transporting goods from overseas. I would be in favor of an eco-tax on imported goods based on how they were transported. Would spur developments like New Cargo Ship: Wind-Powered Sailboat Can Carry 7,000 Cars (popularmechanics.com)

I think we can walk and chew gum at the same time: address eco-impacts of imports and upgrade our infrastructure.

You raise a great point. The additional pollution to ship product from China to the US is valid. That wasn't even part of the equation until now. Producing a product in the USA under EPA standards emits a reasonable level of pollution. Move that production to China with no equivalent EPA stands and pollution it put is multiplied significantly. It's a double whammy.


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[Texas Niro EV]

False again. I provided a link proving the Ozone layer is currently reasonably healthy. You are free to do your own research on the current state of the Ozone layer.

There is nothing false in the statement that your initial statement indicated that you are a disbeliever in climate science. Now you are saying you are a believer in climate science? That is refreshing to hear from a right leaning conspiracy theorist.

This is fact I can backup and there are dozens of other articles about China and their blatant disregard for the environment.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/23/chi...ouse-gas-that-destroys-ozone-layer-study.html

https://nationalpost.com/news/world...-secretly-emitting-banned-ozone-depleting-gas

Even your own references disagree with your statements. "A substantial fraction" is hardly the same as "the biggest offender of Ozone depleting gasses". China probably is the biggest offender of ozone depleting gases but you have provided no information that backs up your speculative claim.

If you want to continue to support practices that shift pollution to China and put Americans out of work, that's your right.

This blatant disinformation supported by your own distorted conservative views. Nobody that supports the American Jobs Plan wants to put Americans out of work or wants to shift pollution to China. As a matter of fact the plan is intended to position the USA to out-compete China.

This is my last post in my discussion with you on this subject.

Oh come on, don't give up now. Just like with Trump in the 2020 election, it feels so good to watch you lose again and again and again and...