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Would you buy a used SE without the benefit of a warranty?

Discussion in 'Cooper SE' started by gosjsgdi, Oct 18, 2022.

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  1. Oct 18, 2022 #1
    gosjsgdi

    gosjsgdi Member

    From what I’ve seen, used SEs sold by Mini dealers tend to get the benefit of some combination of a 1-2 year Certified Pre-Owned Warranty and/or the balance of the original manufacturer’s warranty. Used SEs sold by non-Mini dealers seem to come with a 30-day warranty (and maybe a warm handshake).

    I know that EVs are generally more reliable and involve fewer maintenance costs relative to ICE vehicles, but at least the problems and the costs associated with ICE vehicle maintenance tend to be known. With the SE, they’re just new enough that I haven’t seen a single post in this forum about Part X failing and it costing $Y to replace. It like anyone buying an SE without the benefit of any kind of warranty is risking becoming that Chevy Volt owner receiving a quote of $30K to replace their battery.

    Would love to hear the groupthink on this one. I’m not sure that I want to go through with the order I placed for a BRG Iconic as the value proposition doesn’t really make sense to me anymore without the benefit of the tax credit, but a gently-used (5K miles or less) priced in the lower $30Ks might.
     
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  2. Oct 18, 2022 #2
    CuriousGeorge

    CuriousGeorge Well-Known Member

    I'd do it if the price were right. From what I've seen, though, used SEs still seem to be going for more than what a new one cost in the pre-IRA days. Even with the (up to) $4k incentive for used EVs, that's not worth it to me.

    Relatedly, the number of SEs for sale at dealerships (or "arriving soon") has increased 10-fold since passage of the IRA.
     
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  3. Oct 18, 2022 #3
    Puppethead

    Puppethead Well-Known Member

    Twin Cities, MN
    I've bought ICE MINIs used without warranties, and I wouldn't hesitate to buy an SE that way. Just need to do due diligence like buying any used car, and check for things like flood damage and with an EV the battery capacity. I wonder if services like Carfax provide meaningful information for EVs yet.

    As for replacing the batteries, I've been thinking about this since that's one of the main FUD items anti-BEV people bring up. Replacing batteries is akin to replacing the engine in an ICE vehicle. Yes it's expensive, but how often is that done? And how often would someone say "I'll buy a new car" instead?
     
    Texas22Step, Cindy B, MichaelC and 1 other person like this.
  4. Oct 18, 2022 #4
    gosjsgdi

    gosjsgdi Member

    Price is clearly key. For example, here’s one for $31.7K, just 6100 miles on it. And here’s a 2023 SE with under 1500 miles for $34K. If the one available at that second link dropped by another $1.5-2K, that could potentially be very attractive, especially with just under 1500 miles.
     
  5. Oct 18, 2022 #5
    Tommm

    Tommm Well-Known Member

    Mile High
    there is a post somewhere here about a punctured radiator.

    I think you are wasting your time. The red one is a base. They don't sell the base (signature) anymore. the green one says it has Harmon Kardin so it is a plus. Check the dealer lots, there were cancellations. You may be able to buy a new one and if there is a state credit, the difference wont be much. The dealer south of Denver has a few. I saw one Saturday, a plus with leather for 35,575. It has 4,500k more of options than the base that had a MSRP of 30750 they want 34 used for. the red one is a no option signature.
    https://www.schompmini.com/inventory/new-2023-mini-hardtop-2-door-cooper-se-fwd-hatchback-wmw13dj06p2t31291
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2022
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  6. Oct 18, 2022 #6
    insightman

    insightman Well-Known Member Subscriber

    Ann Arbor
    Have you seen a deal this good on an SE? A new Iconic with the $7,500 tax credit used to cost in the lower $30Ks so to me the value proposition leans towards getting a fully warranteed SE spec'd exactly way you wanted though costing in the upper $30Ks.

    However, each person has their own value propositions. Is your value proposition based on a test drive?

    I was all-in even when I expected to pay more than $40K before the prices were announced in 2019. If a deer took out my SE, I'd rush to order a new Iconic from my hospital bed, even w/o the tax credit. I love this car!
     
    Texas22Step, Tetrodotoxin, Newkirk and 3 others like this.
  7. Oct 18, 2022 #7
    gosjsgdi

    gosjsgdi Member

    As my post history might suggest, I’m one of those folks that would rather take the assessment of a qualified professional, rather than try to do it myself. I’m not sure that I know anyone would take the road-trip with me to some of these dealers, so I’m sure that there would be much googling in my future if I got to the point of wanting to pull the trigger on a used car.

    And yeah, I hear ya on replacing the battery being equivalent to replacing an ICE engine. Just saying that I feel like there’s a decent sample size for knowing how to perform that assessment on an ICE vehicle. I have a good relationship with an ICE mechanic, but I don’t personally know a single person who is qualified to make that assessment on battery health or the working condition of any individual component of an EV drivetrain.
     
  8. Oct 18, 2022 #8
    gosjsgdi

    gosjsgdi Member

    I wish that I could tell you that I had something particularly rigorous guiding my value proposition assessment, but the truth is that there isn’t. For starters though, I did greatly enjoy the test drive (as did my wife). On the other side of the balance sheet are a handful of factors that are just difficult to quantify.

    - My belief that the car market is just about at peak irrationality;
    - I haven’t had a car payment in 17 years and don’t want to start now; and
    - Between my wife and I we have exactly one commute day per week, and our current car (a 2012) has merely 80K miles on it.

    Those three factors all add up to mean that we’d be making a purely unnecessary, self-indulgent purchase, at a time when prices are through the roof, and the equities that I’d be selling to fund it are depressed in value. Yet, the combination of those three are being stared down by my cro-magnon brain who simply says — “Grrrr. Instant torque and go-kart handling!”

    So, the impetus of this thread was just some (half-baked?) attempt to balance my desire to join the club, without making unforced financial mistakes in the process. Buying used seemed like something worth exploring.
     
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  9. Oct 18, 2022 #9
    insightman

    insightman Well-Known Member Subscriber

    Ann Arbor
    It will be interesting to see how the unveiling of specs and prices for the 2024 SE affects the prices of used Oxford SEs.
     
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  10. Oct 18, 2022 #10
    callaflatbed

    callaflatbed New Member

    Wouldn't the battery be covered by the longer, traction battery specific, warranty?

    Anyways. I would view it no differently than buying an ICE car out of warranty. That's my 0.02 as someone who's been on the dealer, corporate, and consumer side of this.
     
    gosjsgdi likes this.
  11. Oct 18, 2022 #11
    gosjsgdi

    gosjsgdi Member

    Right. And I have a crackpot theory that I’m waiting to see how it plays out — The tax credit going away causes folks to back out on their orders. Folks backing out on their orders causes inventory to rise. Inventory rising brings prices down for both used and new SEs.
     
    Jim Matthews likes this.
  12. Oct 18, 2022 #12
    chrunck

    chrunck Well-Known Member

    Albuquerque, NM
    Are there any SEs out of warranty yet? It's still 4 years, 48k miles like the ICE version, right?
     
  13. Oct 18, 2022 #13
    CuriousGeorge

    CuriousGeorge Well-Known Member

    Yes indeedy. That's one reason I'm passing on the Iconic I ordered. Even with the now-gone $7500 tax credit it seemed a bit of a gamble.
     
  14. Oct 18, 2022 #14
    CuriousGeorge

    CuriousGeorge Well-Known Member

    While you think it would work that way, I suspect that most MINI dealers would simply stick to MSRP, and wait until someone with deep enough pockets came along.
     
  15. Oct 18, 2022 #15
    Puppethead

    Puppethead Well-Known Member

    Twin Cities, MN
    My SE is out of warranty. The warranty is 3 years or 36,000 miles. I hit 36,000 miles at two years. The high voltage batteries, though, have a warranty for 80% SoC for 100,000 miles.
     
  16. Oct 18, 2022 #16
    Puppethead

    Puppethead Well-Known Member

    Twin Cities, MN
    Our Oxford SEs may become collector items that go for a premium, especially if the new specs are only slightly better than the current specs. Not to mention handling, MINI-ness, etc.
     
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  17. Oct 18, 2022 #17
    Tommm

    Tommm Well-Known Member

    Mile High
    "Sorry, we cant get the gas mini you want for three months. However, right here on the floor we do have this electric one that comes with two chargers and the state tax credit. We can have it ready in two hours, and our offer on your trade will apply to this car too."
    "Ill take it"
     
  18. Oct 18, 2022 #18
    gosjsgdi

    gosjsgdi Member

    Hey, I did say it was a crackpot theory, right? Either way, I think it does feed into my “the car market is at peak irrationality” assessment and why I just might be more interested in keeping an eye out for low-mileage, gently used SEs that dealers might just be sick of hanging on to (but with a cautious eye on the lack of warranty coverage).

    I think my next step is to do some shopping of third-party aftermarket extended warranties and see what kind of coverage I can get for a used EV.
     
  19. Oct 18, 2022 #19
    Minicris

    Minicris Member

    We bought a used 2022 SE with 3500 miles on it. Our new mini that is coming hopefully next month will cost just a few grand more. The brand new one would have ended up being less, but from what it sounds like we won't get that $7500 tax credit.
    We weren't concerned about warranty as it still has the standard warranty coverage of 36000 miles or whatever it is plus the separate battery warranty.
    We are still undecided if we want to trade it in on the new one or end up having two.
     
    Texas22Step and gosjsgdi like this.
  20. Oct 18, 2022 #20
    AndysComputer

    AndysComputer Well-Known Member

    Plano, TX
    The car should be as reliable as a BMW i3, range extending engine part excluded.
    And based on what I know of that I’d be fine with no warrant just so long as the battery was covered.
     
    Texas22Step likes this.
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