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wiring for my home charging station

Discussion in 'Cooper SE' started by moncureww, Mar 31, 2022.

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  1. Mar 31, 2022 #1
    moncureww

    moncureww Active Member

    Washington, DC
    I live in Washington, DC, and I have a driveway right next to my house and inside the basement I have my 200 amp electrical panel. My thought is to have a 32 or 40 amp circuit with a 14/50 socket installed on the side of the house with an enclosure large enough to put my level 2 charger inside and coil up the wires. Just looking for thoughts from the group. Do you think just having the 14/50 outside inside of a lockable enclosure would be the best idea? The idea of security in a somewhat urban environment where people could potentially take a charger makes me inclined to put it in a box and the 14/50 being so easily pluggable would make it easier if I ever had to replace the EVSE. Also does anyone know of any decent size lockable enclosures?
     

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  2. Mar 31, 2022 #2
    Carsten Haase

    Carsten Haase Well-Known Member

    The Grizzl-e is technically lockable but the mounting bracket is probably not strong enough to stop a motivated theif...

    SecurityLockinGrizzle-600x343.png

    Rather than a lock deterrent, what about one of these stickers and a fake speaker making that power line buzzing sound? You could throw in some fake fraying wires for good measure which would probably also stop unauthorized charging! (Mostly joking)

    JBsign.jpg

    On a more serious note, sounds like hard wiring might be a better solution for you. Many jurisdictions require GFCI with outdoor NEMA 14-50 which can falsely trigger with EVSEs so a plug might not even be an option
     
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  3. Mar 31, 2022 #3
    moncureww

    moncureww Active Member

    Washington, DC
    Gotcha. I'll have to figure this out. I saw the Grizzl-e and liked it the most. If I installed it, it would be installed into masonry probably with Tapcons or similar. I think still would need it to be enclosed - I am afraid of the tweaker/opportunist that might see the chance for a few bucks and pry it off. Don't knock it, I like the big box, actually! My heavy up, cable wiring, etc, and the wiring from my panel (in basement) come up all around the same spot in the driveway on the side of the house. Plus our future solar hookup will be around that area as well. It actually wouldn't look out of place.

    Good info on the GFCI. I didn't think that it would trip, but that makes sense. I'll stick with a proper EVSE like the Grizzl-E and maybe order one this week.
     
  4. Mar 31, 2022 #4
    FrankinCarp

    FrankinCarp Active Member

    Ottawa, Ontario Canada
    I installed my Grizzle charger just inside the garage door so I can run the 25’ power cable under the closed garage door to the charging port of my Mini.
    The cable may still be at risk of being stolen for it’s copper but that does present serious risk to a would be thief.
    As for the circuit to be install, I would recommend a 50 Amp breaker with a heavier gauge supply of minimum, This provides you with a significant margin of safety as far as wire heating is concerned and a somewhat better future proofing margin.


    Mike Wazowski
    & more ️️️ than &
     
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  5. Mar 31, 2022 #5
    Puppethead

    Puppethead Well-Known Member

    Twin Cities, MN
    I have the Grizzl-E classic that came with a 14-50 connector but I had to convert to hardwired for electrical code. It was a trivial change that took less than five minutes. So the Grizzl-E is a nice flexible choice.
     
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  6. Mar 31, 2022 #6
    moncureww

    moncureww Active Member

    Washington, DC
    Thanks for your input. Thinking about it, this is something similar to what I expect to do, because I want to keep the unit itself indoors and secured. I just ordered a Grizzl-E Classic charger. My thought is now that I will run 6/3 wire from the basement panel to a 15/40 or 15/50 and mount the EVSE indoors inside my basement @ my utility area, then run the vehicle charging cable to the outside of the house/driveway through the basement brick/block wall where there has already been an opening bored for electrical cabling, etc.. By installing it indoors inside a conditioned space the charger is safe, and the only thing exposed to the exterior will be the charging cable - which I can find a way to secure when not in use. The mounting point will be on the interior wall of the basement, towards the ceiling, where just outside on the same side of the house I currently park my car in the driveway.

    I want to maximize the charge available - I have a 200 amp service in a 1700sf house with all new HVAC, entirely new wiring throughout the home, a new electrical panel, and new heavy up. We have modest electrical usage, so I imagine a 50 amp circuit breaker would be the way to go and give myself the maximum charging performance out of the unit. Any thoughts on that as well? I have a friend who is a master electrician and is licensed to permit and do this sort of work in the city, so I imagine he'll know a lot more about this than I do. He may have some better ideas as well.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2022
  7. Mar 31, 2022 #7
    revorg

    revorg Well-Known Member

    I like the idea of a locked box. I had an electrician install a 240 outlet on the house next to my driveway. My garage is detached, so running a 240 line out there would have been prohibitively expensive. Currently, I keep the EVSE in the garage when not in use, but a locked weatherproof box next to the outlet would be perfect.
     
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  8. Mar 31, 2022 #8
    SameGuy

    SameGuy Well-Known Member Subscriber

    YUL
    The NEC (since 2017) requires GFCI whether indoors or outdoors:
    FWIW, Grizzl-E states that their GFCI won’t be affected by the required GFI at the breaker.
     
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  9. Mar 31, 2022 #9
    Puppethead

    Puppethead Well-Known Member

    Twin Cities, MN
    That's interesting, I asked them when I got mine and they said it wouldn't work. Which is why I went the hardwired route.
     

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  10. Mar 31, 2022 #10
    SameGuy

    SameGuy Well-Known Member Subscriber

    YUL
    Yeah, along with reading a pdf of the SE manual, I delved into the Grizzl-E manuals as well ;)
    B1FF3FAC-679F-4AEE-BFDA-805D22E3C55E.jpeg
    The Siemens breaker I just got is a “Class A GFCI” that trips with a 5 mA imbalance, so I expect that the Grizzl-E self-test leaks less than that to ground.
     
  11. Mar 31, 2022 #11
    Carsten Haase

    Carsten Haase Well-Known Member

    Jurisdictions are not required to adopt every part of the NEC. They can pick and choose or amend as they see fit. Oregon does not require GFCI on 240V outlets

    SmartSelect_20220331-200554_Acrobat for Samsung.jpg
     
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  12. Mar 31, 2022 #12
    Carsten Haase

    Carsten Haase Well-Known Member

    The Grizzl-e charger handle has a small hole in the release lever that you can put a lock through to prevent it from being unlatched from the dock (or the car). Not super secure with the included dock but better than nothing
     
  13. Mar 31, 2022 #13
    SameGuy

    SameGuy Well-Known Member Subscriber

    YUL
    625.54 supersedes 210.8(A) when the receptacle is installed for the purpose of charging an EV. But yes, the AHJ can undermine the NFPA as they see fit. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
     
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  14. Apr 1, 2022 #14
    Carsten Haase

    Carsten Haase Well-Known Member

    Totally unrelated to this thread, but that's super vague wording lol. Isn't being multi-use one of the main reasons for an outlet vs hardwiring? How do they decide if it's for an EV?
     
  15. Apr 1, 2022 #15
    SameGuy

    SameGuy Well-Known Member Subscriber

    YUL
    I don’t know too many any people who’d get a 14-50 installed in a garage or on the driveway for anything other than an EV.
     
  16. Apr 1, 2022 #16
    Carsten Haase

    Carsten Haase Well-Known Member

    RVs and welders? I plan to use my outlet for a welder (but still primarily for my car)
     
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  17. Apr 1, 2022 #17
    Rexsio

    Rexsio Well-Known Member

    New York
    You don’t have to lock anything just follow my sketch on outside for good appearance you can put 10x10” access panel from any Home Depot . I recommended Cripper Creek .com charger they have like bulletproof plug rubberized if you drop nothing happens 14023AFF-1B42-4365-BB91-EF6729B866F3.jpeg C5D69C22-F9C3-4C6D-919C-F0CEC06CC570.jpeg 8DDDCEB6-89C9-4E6A-82EE-7F98DE2E05D0.jpeg with heavy cord and 5 years warranty made in California 32 amp and bigger too
     
  18. Apr 1, 2022 #18
    Rexsio

    Rexsio Well-Known Member

    New York
    I use that unit for 6 years plug to outlet for I 3 and now for SE I prefer bc you can take with you everywhere if you travel and is there nema 14-50 outlet like for dryer you can use it . My is protected with double 40 amp. Breaker in a panel but 40 amp unit you use 50 amp breaker but SE can take only 32 amp.bigger is unnecessary.
     
  19. Apr 1, 2022 #19
    Rexsio

    Rexsio Well-Known Member

    New York
    Next to L2 charger install outlet 15-20 amp for L1 factory charger just you my use one day
     
  20. Apr 5, 2022 #20
    GetOffYourGas

    GetOffYourGas Well-Known Member

    Syracuse, NY
    I second Carsten’s reply. I actually know several people who have a 14-50 in their driveway for an RV. I don’t know anyone personally (other than myself) who has a 14-50 for an EV.


    Sent from my iPhone using Inside EVs
     
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