Why the BMW i3-REx

Discussion in 'i3' started by bwilson4web, Nov 13, 2017.

  1. Srivenkat

    Srivenkat New Member

    Thanks. Also, something that I have wondered about:

    Wouldn't it have been better if BMW offered the REX mounted on its own wheels that could be attached to a BEV when needed? Perhaps with a bigger 5-gallon tank or something? The REX could also then do double duty as a generator set for the house, separate from the BEV? I understand there could be aesthetics considerations involved, but this could have been a huge differentiator in the EV market.

    Also, perhaps BMW i-dealers could then "rent" out well maintained REXs?
     
  2. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web Well-Known Member Subscriber

    One sweetness from the Model 3 deliveries is some BMW i3 leases will end early. Supply and demand means lower prices.

    Bob Wilson
     
  3. sipabit

    sipabit Member

    Although that's true, there are also a ton of people who will realize that they're not getting the credit they hoped for. They're all going to run out by the time the base model comes out which is what the majority of people are looking for. Once that settles in and they realize they can't as comfortably afford the car they thought it was going to be, they'll be looking elsewhere and the demand for alternatives will rise. Demand will go up for the i3. However, there's also a lot of competitors coming into the market in the next couple of years, so tough to say what's really going to happen.

    For certain though, we're not going to see this situation again. The market environment right now is very unusual. Despite the Nissan Leaf having been around awhile, EV's are still in its infancy. Consumers are still misunderstood and think they want an EV with a range of 200 miles even though the majority of people don't drive more than 20-30 miles a day. They still think they want to charge their cars only as often as they get gas. Once people realize that it's okay to charge every day, they'll stop trying to convince themselves that longer range is better. When someone tells them that a bigger battery means it takes longer to charge, more expensive to repair/replace, is heavier and therefore less efficient, they'll still be in denial. But one day, it'll settle in. Just not sure how long it'll take.
     
  4. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web Well-Known Member Subscriber

    Although one should not ignore government incentives, they alone are not enough to justify buying a car. For example, our first plug-in, hybrid, a used 2014 BMW i3-REx, was bought without any government incentives. I needed to replace a 2003 Prius and the 2014 was priced the same as the local Toyota dealer tried to sell the wrong, 2016 Prius.

    Bob Wilson
     
  5. Apexerman

    Apexerman Member

    I have a friend who feels very much the same way. In his mind, an EV has GOT to have at least 250-300 mile range or he wouldn't consider. Never mind that he rarely goes out of state or takes long trips, but it's that "what if I need to!" mindset. Of course as EV ranges improve, and even exceed the typical range of a tank of gas, folks will likely adopt electric cars in droves.
     
  6. Viking79

    Viking79 Well-Known Member

    Exactly, and many people buying these have a second vehicle. You don't need both cars for highway trips most of the time.

    As sipabit states, people just don't understand that an electric car is fully charged every morning at home. Not the same way of thinking as a gas car. Presuming you charge at home.
     
  7. sipabit

    sipabit Member

    People who don't really want one or don't take the time to really do any sort of considerable amount of research shouldn't have one. It just ruins it for the rest of us who are serious about it. I'm not looking forward to waiting in line for public charging stations like Tesla owners do.

    EV's are not designed for long trips. For instances where they want to take a long trip, rent a car. There's nothing shameful about that. The car should suit the majority situation and address any future changes - not be the all-in-one car for any and every situation.
    Yup, different cars serve different purposes. The car for flexibility in addressing all situations will be a gas sedan. As with everything else, something that suits all will be "good enough", but fall short in every single scenario. A lot of people just don't want to knowingly choose to sacrifice something. They feel they're making a stupid choice by knowingly selecting something that isn't "good enough" in any and all aspects.

    "fully charged every morning at home." That's a great way to put it. I do see that not everyone has the luxury of charging at home. If that's the case though, there's a lot more to consider and again, there's no shame in driving a gas car. I think there are starting to be too many people who are feeding into the electric car thing as a fad and less as a utility.

    I'm confused though why we see Teslas being charged at public stations at all. There's no way these people drive over 110-125 miles one way and don't have charging options at home. Actually, I do know why. They use them as "preferred" parking spaces. I actually wished that public charging stations were FURTHER out from the buildings they serve to avoid that problem of people hogging up the spaces for proximity to their destination vs using the actual charger.

    I work at a hospital and can't stand doctors taking up patient parking spaces. That's just ridiculous. With charging stations, buying a Tesla is just their ticket to an excused space that's closer and no one knows the wiser. If I was a doctor, I'd take the space furthest away knowing that patient spaces have higher turnover. Me taking up one space all day vs a much larger number of patients getting to use the same space over the same period of time as they come and go for appointments.

    Enough of my rant.
     
  8. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web Well-Known Member Subscriber

    My hard requirement was (is) a minimum range of 120 miles so I can reach a physician in Nashville TN. In May 2016, I looked at a 2016 Prius only to find the one I wanted, the ECO model, did not come with the safety features of dynamic cruise control and automatic emergency braking. Instead the dealer tried to sell an upscale model and I walked. But their last offer was the same price as an end-of-lease, BMW i3-REx with those features and range. That was an easy decision. I bought the BMW i3-REx and drove it 463 miles back to Huntsville AL over the I-40 mountain pass between Charlotte NC and Knoxville TN.

    Later that year, a motor mount bolt broke and I used the backup, 2010 Prius that did not have the safety features. So I replaced it with a 2017 Prius Prime and drove it 1,200 miles home.

    I'm not a battery bigot nor a fuel cell sucker. Let others pioneer those technologies. In the meanwhile, I have the range of an ICE and efficiency of an EV.

    Bob Wilson
     
  9. Apexerman

    Apexerman Member

    I'm starting to see this in a public garage near my workplace. Electric car owners using the charging spots as parking spaces. If the cord isn't hooked up, why are they there? Most folks don't do this, but a few owners do. I've seen the same car before and after lunch with no cord attached. I'm tempted to print up a note that says, "Please move your car once your finished. Others may need to charge." It'll be a reminder for those who charged to kindly relocate their vehicle, or two, guilt-trip the inconsiderate types trying to get a closer space without charging. I like that idea of putting charging stations farther away.
     
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  10. sipabit

    sipabit Member

    Funny that I came across your response on a day where that happened to me. I'm maybe not as nice as you. I think embarrassment would be more effective than yelling. I may start with a cleaner note at first but if the guy who keeps parking there and not plugging in keeps at it, my note will be plastered on an 8.5x11 sheet and slapped onto the windshield for all to see. It will read:

    "I do not care that others need to charge their cars. I have priority and choose not to plug-in."

    I want to post the note early in the day so more EV drivers in the lot will take notice and see it. More exposure the better.
     
  11. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web Well-Known Member Subscriber

    You could buy a $200, J1772 extension cord. Plug-in your car and leave a bill for the extension cord. Be sure to include a photo of their license plate with a clear statement that that 'we can negotiate' a reasonable resolution and your contact information.

    Bob Wilson
     
  12. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web Well-Known Member Subscriber

    It was a dark and rainy night when I got to the fast DC charger and plugged in. Leaving the car ON, I had heat and accessed the City WiFi network. Sad to say, there was a news SUV parked in the second parking place but I was warm and dry. With 12 minutes left at 81% SOC, a Leaf showed up.

    He parked behind the SUV and came up to look at the BMW and I invited him to the passenger side. For the next 12 minutes we chatted about the BMW i3-REx and I gave him one of my 'handout' sheets. We also went over my driving experiments from Huntsville-to-Nashville on EV, L2 and CCS, and back using gas.

    Sad to say, he was disappointed in his Leaf with just over 80 mile range and no support or sympathy from the dealer. His other CHAdeMO option is the Nissan dealer 35 miles away and now closed in Decatur. With my Rex, I could have left secure in the knowledge I would get home except I was in EV mode. If he'd offered $3 for a gallon of gas, I would have moved on BUT neither of us brought it up and I enjoyed talking about our BMW i3-REx.

    Charging ended with 91.5% SOC and I drove to the L2 charger two miles away at Propst. I bought groceries and got my flu shot at StarMarket, part of the Propst business group. The rain intensified so I went to 1892 restaurant while the rain relented. Remotely, I turned on preconditioning to warm the cabin and left for home with 100% SOC.

    Bob Wilson
     
  13. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web Well-Known Member Subscriber



    Bob Wilson
     
    Domenick likes this.
  14. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web Well-Known Member Subscriber

    So this morning leaving at 5:30 AM, the "drive train malfunction" light comes on. The pop-up says you can continue but need to take the car into the dealer (boat payment due?) Regardless, I run my errand and driving to the fast DC charger, enabled the REx that comes on and it works normally. Huh.

    While on the charger, I plug in the iCar OBD device and fire up BimmerLink:
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]


    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    You'll notice the three dots in the upper right on the main screens, hitting this brought up the options to "Clear Errors" or "Send a report."

    [​IMG]


    • Info memory
      49 errors

      TRSVC
      1 error
      800BD6: ECU_RESET_REASON

      RE_EME
      2 errors
      21DDD0: REME INVERTER, REDUCED-POWER OPERATION: TEMPERATURE
      THRESHOLD EXCEEDED
      21DDD0: REME INVERTER, REDUCED-POWER OPERATION: TEMPERATURE
      THRESHOLD EXCEEDED

      ZGW
      8 errors
      100600: FLEXRAY PROTOCOL STARTUP TIME IS TOO HIGH
      100601: UNEXPECTED ASYNCHRONOUS STATE ON FLEXRAYBUS
      100604: A FLEXRAY ERROR HAS ACCUMULATED
      100100: CONTACT TO FZM SLAVE LOST
      100104: HW WECKGRUND ZGW
      100300: COMMISSIONING COULD NOT BE PERFORMED AS TAS ALREADY EMPLOYS
      100203: DM SOFTWARE ERROR INFO WARNING
      100204: MESSAGE MONITORING: SYSTEM CONTEXT SIGNAL FAILED

      1

      LIM
      1 error
      805543: PLC_ERROR_REASON

      KLE
      2 errors
      21E688: PARTIAL NETWORK OPERATION
      21E689: ERROR

      EME
      5 errors
      E89400: MESSAGE (VEHICLE CONDITION, 0X3A0) IS MISSING
      22280A: HV POWER MANAGEMENT: SHUTDOWN REQUESTOR CAT 2
      22280B: HV POWER MANAGEMENT: SHUTDOWN REQUESTOR CAT
      22282E: CHECKCONTROL 557: SECURE VEHICLE AGAINST ROLLING AWAY!
      22282A: CHECKCONTROL 244: ENGAGE THE GEAR BRAKE PEDAL!

      2

      TFM
      1 error
      1D0001: MESSAGE (VEHICLE CONDITION, 0X3A0) IS MISSING

      SAS
      3 errors
      030807: FAS - FUNCTIONAL DEACTIVATION
      030809: FAS - BRAKE - OPERATIONAL READINESS
      482EBB: IPDUM_E_TRANSMIT_FAILED

      PMA
      1 error
      8032A0: PMA ABORT FUNCTIONAL WITHOUT CCM

      EPS
      2 errors
      4822C6: ASSIST FIREWALL TOUCHED
      4822D4: ASSIST FIREWALL FAULTMODE

      3

      CAS
      5 errors
      400030: EWS COMMUNICATION PRIMARY: TIMEOUT REDUNDANCY
      804000: RESET FOR UNKNOWN REASON
      804002: RESET BY EXTERNAL
      80402C: NVM EEPROM DRIVER ERROR
      8040BC: IBS WAKEUP: WAKE-UP SIGNAL IMPLAUSIBLE

      FZD
      1 error
      801A20: CAN_E_TIMEOUT

      KOMBI
      6 errors
      B7F67C: COMBI: CAN INPUT BUFFER, DATA LOSS
      B7F669: COMBI: INFO ERROR 1
      E12C2F: INTERFACE HU (ACKNOWLEDGMENT REQUEST COMBINATION, 0X172):
      SIGNAL FAULTY
      E12C30: INTERFACE HU (STATUS SERVICE CALL TELEX, 0X30F): SIGNAL FAULTY
      E12C3C: INTERFACE DME, DDE (STATUS CONSUMPTION FUEL MOTOR, 0X2C4):
      SIGNAL INVALID
      E12C4A: INTERFACE HU (FORECAST ROUTE TARGET, 0X3C7): SIGNAL INVALID

      4

      ECALL
      8 errors
      610019: NVM INTEGRITY CHECK FAILED
      E14405: TIMEOUT CAN MESSAGE GPS_CTI_MOST
      E14406: TIMEOUT CAN MESSAGE GPS_PO_EXTS_MOST
      E14409: TIMEOUT CAN MESSAGE TERMINATION
      E14426: INVALID SIGNAL IN CAN MESSAGE GPS_PO_EXTS_MOST
      E1442C: INVALID SIGNAL IN CAN MESSAGE STAT_ZV_KLAPPEN
      E14413: TIMEOUT CAN MESSAGE STAT_GANG_RUECKWAERTS
      E14414: TIMEOUT CAN MESSAGE STAT_ZV_KLAPPEN

      KLIMA
      3 errors
      07802B: COMM_E_NET_START_IND_CHANNEL_0
      078107: EDH INVALID INDEX
      078100: EKMV ALIVECOUNTER

      5

    Without a timestamp, a list of errors could have been collected over a long period of time. We don't have causality. Otherwise, the car worked normally. It could have been a transient. So my practice is to reset all errors and see if the problem returns.

    The error indicator remained so I put the car on a charger and got breakfast. When I came back, the error indicator was clear. We call that "Cleared while testing."

    Bob Wilson
     
  15. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web Well-Known Member Subscriber

    Introduction

    Having found the ShorePower, truck electrical stations midway between Huntsville AL and Nashville TN, I decided to do an all electric, round trip to measure times, distances, and costs.

    Huntsville To Nashville And Back
    • Arrive Tennessean Truck Stop - 6:37 to 7:39, started with 70 miles EV indicated at 100% SOC. Tripmeter reports 1:02 hr, 55 mi, average speed 54.0 mph. Connected to ShorePower getting 212VAC @30A, 6.36 kW but though power was on, took about two minutes to contact activation service for 2 hour charge, $3. Had breakfast and used excellent WiFi to plan Nashville destination, Green Hill YMCA, in Nashville. Found a data plate: Model TSE-4, Part: SP-0585-R02, 120/240 VAC, 102 Am NEMA 3Rm Wire Size: 4awg to 3/0, Intertek.
    • Arrive Green Hills YMCA EVgo - 9:43 to 10:48, left with 81%, 62 mi indicated. Arrived 13.5% with 11 mi indicated. Total distance 115 mi, 2:08 hr, 55.1 mph, 4.3 mi/kWh. Connected to EVgo which reported: 45 min and 8 seconds, 17.07 kWh, cost $15.75 at 11:36. I returned to charging station at 12:10 AM not realizing the charging session had ended. The e-mail notification was OK but an iPhone SMS text would have been more useful. Had a Lox cream cheese, toasted bagel for lunch.
    • Arrive Tennessean Truck Stop - 11:58 to 13:04, left with 96.5%, 69 mi indicated. 1:05 h duration, 60 mi, 3.9 mi/kWh, 56.8 mph. Arrived 12.5%, 9 mi indicated. Connected to ShorePower which was still hot without calling the enable service. Had a bowl of soup and set destination for the HSV fast DC charger. Left with 71% and 59 mi indicated to map distance of 49 mi.
    • Arrive HSV Fast DC charger - 14:55 to 15:57, ICE started 30 yards from charger, 6% and 6 mi indicated. Started charger and paid $0.25 parking meter fee.
    • Arrived home 17:14.
    Lessons Learned
    • The phantom charge is misleading. The last 91-100% charge does not have the same kWh of energy per percent as the lower percentages. This makes sense as the current falls off above 88% so it makes sense we are not storing the same kWh as before. So even though I left with an indicated 10 mile pad, I arrived at the HSV Fast DC charger at the threshold that just started the ICE. I stopped it in about ~10 seconds as I parked.
    • It appears ShorePower activation is 'honor system' at the Tennessean Truck Stop. I had to turn on the NEMA 14-50 circuit breaker but it was never turned off by their activation service.
    • Every hour of driving is ~2 hours of L2 charging at 208-210 VAC at 30 A. In contrast, a fast DC charger takes about 45 minutes. However, both suffer from a higher indicated charge in the 91-100% SOC level that does not have the same kWh energy level as the 81-90%. What this means is a detour to a fast DC charger needs to be less than an hour or you might as well use a full-power, L2 charger.
    • EV costs were $3, $15.75, and $0.25, for a total of $19.00. Had I driven on gas, it would have cost ~$12 and saved nearly 5 hours of charging. The total trip time was ~11 hours for both driving and charging.
    Bob Wilson
     
  16. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web Well-Known Member Subscriber

    Now I can compare and contrast two routes, driving EV only, between Huntsville and Nashville:

    [​IMG][​IMG]

    Via direct route, 30A, 208VAC, L2: (GOOD, CHEAP)
    • Shortest distance, -30 mi., 114 mi
    • Cheapest charging, $3 (or honor system)
    • Longest time, +20 min, total 4hr 5 min
    Via detour to fast charger: (GOOD, FAST)
    • Longest distance, +30 mi., 143 mi
    • Most expensive, $12
    • Shortest time, -20 min, total 3hr 46 min
    Via direct route, REx: (FAST, CHEAP)
    • Shortest distance, 114 mi
    • Medium cost, $6, 2.3 gal
    • Shortest time, -1hr 40 min, total 2hr 5 min
    Bob Wilson

    ps. GOOD, FAST, CHEAP - pick two
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2019
  17. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web Well-Known Member Subscriber

    So Monday I drove from Huntsville to Nashville via "Tennessee Truck Stop" and was able to look at the 'false' SOC %. I came to realize the SOC is a voltage metric, not a power, kWh, metric. What happens is in the 90-92% SOC range, below it, there are real kWh available. Above this threshold, the SOC is misleading in a bad way.

    I had noticed that SOC in the low 90% and above, is nonlinear, very shallow. The available power to move the car is thin. But once you get below that threshold, approaching 80-85%, the battery has enough strength and power to sustain the car on a trip.

    The exact relationship is probably vehicle specific but I have some speculations that SOC may be voltage, not an actual power metric. But I also realized there is a way to mitigate the rapidly shallowing, SOC challenge, especially during charging.

    The trick is to enable "pre-conditioning" when the charging power rate first falls off. The grid charger is power limited but as the battery charging falls off, I recommend enable "pre-conditioning" to fill the gap. The heat added to the cabin and battery remains even after the tapered, power to the battery, falls off, that keeps the grid charger in "a good place."

    Bob Wilson
     
  18. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web Well-Known Member Subscriber

    I've noticed that when plugged in to a charger, the heater no longer blows warm air. However, enabling pre-conditioning does blow warm air while on charger. But then comes the question of when, especially if traveling.

    As an experiment, I waited until the L2 charging current reached ~16A, about 50% of the normal 32A rate:
    [​IMG]
    The preconditioning load draws more current to heat the cabin. But this only brings the load up to the maximum the car can take. After a brief return to peak power, it ramps down but shares the load with battery charging. In effect, we are thermally charging the cabin while the battery charging ramps down.

    Bob Wilson
     

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