Why can't we edit/delete original posts?

Discussion in 'Clarity' started by Hobbesgsr, Apr 1, 2018.

How long for the edit limit?

Poll closed May 9, 2018.
  1. 1 hour

    20.0%
  2. 2 hour

    80.0%
  1. Hobbesgsr

    Hobbesgsr Active Member

    Mods?
    Is this forum old school 80's tech?
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2018
  2. Domenick

    Domenick Administrator Staff Member

    There is an edit function for a limited time. If you have a particular post you need adjusted, you can click on inbox on the upper right, and start a conversation with me. I'd be happy to help you out.
     
  3. Hobbesgsr

    Hobbesgsr Active Member

    So you limited this functionality on purpose?

    This is the only forum I’ve seen that prevents this basic function and this freedom is sorely missing.
     
  4. jdonalds

    jdonalds Well-Known Member

    I agree. Why limit editing of those who made a post? This is the only forum I participate in that doesn't allow edits normally.
     
  5. Domenick

    Domenick Administrator Staff Member

    I think we lengthened the time available to edit, but I'll ask and see if it can't extended again, or made always editable.
     
    Hobbesgsr likes this.
  6. Jack

    Jack Administrator Staff Member

    We do not allow editing of posts after a certain time in order to protect the integrity of the forum. We rely on self-moderation here, thus transparency is critical. Having an edit limit means that users cannot hide prohibited behavior, go back on their word, or frame others in a falsified manner. While other social platforms allow unlimited editing, we do not believe this is a good practice, and you will find that such editing does not translate to the real word. You cannot unspeak words. If you change your mind or make a mistake, simply post a correction or 'report' the post and explain what you need edited. The freedom and functionality are not missing, we simply put the community before individual users.

    While we will always have an edit limit (unless our staff grows exponentially), we can discuss how long that limit is. I am in favor of lengthening the limit. What do you guys think is fair?
     
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  7. Hobbesgsr

    Hobbesgsr Active Member

    Honestly makes me want to look for a less totalitarian forum. I would say more but I now fear being censored here.
     
    jdonalds likes this.
  8. jdonalds

    jdonalds Well-Known Member

    I had a word in a post from the past couple of days that was put in a sentence by spell check. I wanted to fix it but can't. How about letting us edit for a week or so.
     
  9. Domenick

    Domenick Administrator Staff Member

    You can feel free to say what you want. I think what we're trying to avoid is people editing things long after the fact that substantively changes to the intent or message of an original posting. For instance, if I, in a post, promised to eat my hat if Tesla turns a profit in Q3, but later alter "hat" to "chocolate bunny," people who were expecting hat eating would be sorely disappointed. (probably not the best example, since it's kind of silly and not likely to occur, but I hope I made my point)

    I've been a member of another forum -- Tesla Motors Club -- for 10 years and just had to look now to see if I can edit old posts, and I can not. So, if we extend the window to a more reasonable length -- a week, as suggested by @jdonalds seems reasonable to me -- I don't think most would even notice the ability to edit had gone away. He have a really great bunch of users, especially in the Clarity section, and I don't think anyone is here to purposefully cause problems.

    Since our devs run one of the biggest and oldest auto forum on the net, I tend to trust their experience with these sorts of issues.
    We also value your participation here and want you to be comfortable, so appreciate your input.
     
  10. Jack

    Jack Administrator Staff Member

    While I agree that this forum may not be for you, I can assure you that you will not be censored here. If you came to this community to exercise only your personal desires, then you may have misunderstood our purpose. Again, we are here for each other. If the functionality of editing posts was lost altogether would you still be here? Having an edit limit is by no means totalitarian, it is simply a rule that we have, and many successful forums have this same rule. Do you think Baseball considers Basketball "totalitarian"?

    We welcome you to stay and become part of our community, and also support your decision to find another forum. Whatever your decision may be, we value your feedback and appreciate any suggestions you have on the length of edit limit.
     
  11. Viking79

    Viking79 Well-Known Member

    I agree that an edit limit is fine for forum posts. Many forums actually have similar and for the reason you state, you can't change the meaning of a post later.

    However, there are posts where editing indefinitely is helpful. Like tracking efficiency records and adding entries, etc.

    It seems there aught to be a way to support both of these. Maintaining post integrity and allowing people to edit data in a legitimate fashion. I wonder if making a post version history would be feasible, so the user could read earlier versions of the post.
     
    Domenick likes this.
  12. Jack

    Jack Administrator Staff Member

    I agree, and I am thankful to have such a helpful group of people connecting with one another, but these rules are necessary to insure such groups are protected far into the future. If we are lucky to grow large enough, bad apples will inevitably start to roll around, and we will be prepared for them.

    We are open to this, but it would require extra development. Please understand that editing of posts does not go away after a period of time, you just have to report changes/updates. This is very easy for simple tasks like tracking efficiency records and such. This process also makes such recorded information far more reliable and trustworthy.

    Short-sighted mistakes are not an issue here, we encourage edits and corrections, but short-sighted planning is. Know this: our rules are for the preservation and cultivation of the community, that it may remain for many years. We fully expect users to come and go, and it is for this reason that the community is valued over individuals. I have seen far too many times, users pushing to change the community only to abandon it.
     
  13. Jack

    Jack Administrator Staff Member

    Quite frankly, a week is unnecessarily long. In my experience, the most I have seen is 4 hours, but I admit that I do not know what Tesla Motor Club and others have in place. I will ask some successful communities to get a better understanding.
     
    Domenick likes this.
  14. Domenick

    Domenick Administrator Staff Member

    To be honest, I'm not sure how long the edit window is at TMC. I know there must be one, because I almost always mess up and have to edit posts, though usually right away.
     
  15. Pushmi-Pullyu

    Pushmi-Pullyu Well-Known Member

    This is obviously a matter of personal taste and/or opinion, not a matter of One True Way to allow editing, or not, on a social media platform.

    I've been on forums which allowed unlimited editing after the fact. Some people abused the privilege by editing out an error (or hot-tempered outburst) long after the original post, and after others had responded, to make it look like they had not made a mistake, or to make it look like others were accusing them of saying something they had not actually said.

    Personally, I suggest everyone chill out, and learn to "color inside the lines" of this forum. Sadly, this is a no-win choice for the Administrators here, because no matter what sort of time limit they do or don't impose on editing, someone is going to complain. I speak from experience when I say that being moderator of a forum is mostly a thankless job. So let us please respect the decisions of the Administrators here.

    Bottom line: You can't please everyone, and those who do the work get to set the rules.

    At worst, you can politely ask Domenick to make a correction after the editing time limit has passed, if you think it's important. I have done that once or twice, and he was very prompt in making the change I requested. Just "Start a new conversation" with Domenick, using the "Inbox" menu at the top right of the page, to make sure he sees your request.
    -
     
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  16. Jack

    Jack Administrator Staff Member

    Update: TMC edit time is 1 hour, so with that for reference I propose increasing the time limit from 15 minutes to 2 hours.
     
    AlanSqB and Domenick like this.
  17. KentuckyKen

    KentuckyKen Well-Known Member

    Condider keeping it like it is. I review mine after posting and make corrections. A lot!
    When I noticed once I had something entered backwards and couldn’t correct it due to catching it too late, I emailed Dominick and he saw the problem and took care of it. I assume he vetted it to make sure it was an honest error and not in response to subsequent posts by others.
    What happens when someone quotes or replies to a post and then 2 hours later that original post is changed? Does the copy that is in the quote/reply get changed too?
    I would think changes made long after posts have been quoted or replied to could possibly create confusion.
     
  18. Pushmi-Pullyu

    Pushmi-Pullyu Well-Known Member

    I'm pretty sure the edit time limit is now 30 minutes, not 15 minutes. Domenick got it extended it after I complained about the time being too short.

    I agree with KentuckyKen to some extent; 2 hours might be too long. If we need a change, why not try the same 1 hour time limit TMC is using? 2 hours might be long enough to create problems. There has already been one case of me replying to someone else, who apparently edited his post while I was in the process of replying, then he replied to my reply which quoted his original wording. (No bad acting on his part; it was a simple editing error which reversed the meaning of what he meant to say.) Extending the editing time further than necessary is likely to create more instances of such confusion.

    Just my personal opinion, of course.
    -
     
  19. jdonalds

    jdonalds Well-Known Member

    I can edit my Amazon.com reviews for years.

    The last time I made an edit on this board was to correct a word that spellcheck put in. I didn't notice it until the next day.
     
    GTO 409 likes this.
  20. Hobbesgsr

    Hobbesgsr Active Member

    In my humble opinion the issue is that the this simple policy is based on the presumption that users will abuse this function. This prejudice creates a rather constructive and subtle air of distrust that I don’t feel in other forums. I understand it’s intent is positive but we can all cite regimes around the world that purport the same justification to “protect the masses”.

    Every successful forum is a community of people that interact and share information. This simple universal setting is like a early mandatory curfew set to “prevent” the restless from causing trouble and we must go through the process of asking authorities for permission to go about our business.

    I’ve had too many instances where I’ve wanted to update my post to add/append to information or correct errors but wasn’t able to. It’s very frustrating to not have this freedom or trust to edit my own written words based on the presumption that the intent was negative.

    Other forums have prevented this by warning then banning trouble makers that persist in negative behaviours. Other members can report posts or activity that maliciously cause confusion, troll or are inflammatory. A common tactic is to quote the OPs words to have a history of their words.

    I want to be a contributing and active member to this forum but I am now not motivated to do so.
    All the best.
     
    jdonalds likes this.

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