If you ever wondered how an electric car creates heat for the cabin in the winter, then this video should be of interest to you. Is it worth having a heat pump in an electric car? What is a PTC Heater? There are three general types of heating in an electric car and in this video, I give a brief overview of all three, and give examples of some of the EVs that use them.
Two suggestions: waste heat recovery - the Tesla octovalve routes waste heat from the battery and drive train to the cabin. some benchmarks - in ~25 F external and ~75 F internal parked, it takes about 2.5 kW. Decrease the cabin to 65 F and the load goes to about 1.5 kW. The same seat heater setting was used for both. Good news, the basic heating options are covered. Perhaps more emphasis on pre-conditioning would help by pointing out the advantages of grid power heating. Bob Wilson
I wasn't impressed with the video. I found myself having to fast forward through most of it due to advertising Anyhow, to give you a better idea of the cost of a heat pump, see what Kia Niro EV is charging for the winter package which includes the traction battery heater, a heated steering wheel and a heat pump. The window sticker here in the states says it costs $1,100 USD for the three items. I would expect the cost for a heat pump to be around an extra $500 USD. The only reason a heat pump should cost thousands of dollars is if they pull the same crap Hyundai is pulling with the Ioniq 5 where they make you buy the more expensive model to get a heater steering wheel.
Thanks for the details, but this is an EQ episode (EV-olution Quickie) and not an in depth video. There are many videos out there that go into lots of details, this one is aimed at people who don't have an understanding of how an electric car can heat the cabin without a gas motor making heat. Thanks again.
I try my best, but I can't please everyone. This is an EQ episode (EV-olution Quickie) aimed at people who don't have an understanding of how an electric car can heat the cabin without a gas motor making heat. It is also my first video after 3 months away from YouTube and I wanted to explain why to my 10,000 subscribers. Sorry you didn't like it.
I've been noticing that it is not well known how each plugin model manages to provide heat in the absence of engine heat. If someone could build a list of models and heating methods, that would be helpful in informing shoppers looking to buy. Many who have bought some models of PHEVs are surprised when winter comes and their engines are required to provide heat due to the limitations of heat pumps and the absence of adequate alternative heating methods. Some real-world data on energy consumption at 10F for all models would be bonus since the impact on battery drain is more noticeable than the impact on fuel tank drain. Maybe fueleconomy.gov should expand their EPA estimates to convey the impact temperature has on plugin vehicles. If a new energy storage technology comes to market that overcomes the cold weather performance limitations, then the data would be available for shoppers to note and decide which technology best suits their expected environment.
My MINI Cooper SE has a heat pump, but under about 20 ºF it doesn't do any good. I recently performed a test drive at -3 ºF with all heat turned off, and got 4.84 mi/kWh (~40 mile trip), similar to my summer efficiency.
I have had a similar experience with my Niro EV, with the HVAC off, even at low temperatures, the power consumption is about the same as summer if the battery is warm, but if the battery is very cold it is not possible.
One important factor for the decision of a heat pump other than the climate is if you road trip the vehicle often in the winter. For me the majority of my use would be fine in the winter with a reduced range and no heat pump.
Providing commentary about how one can maintain efficiency by not operating the climate control in winter will not help in moving society to electric vehicles.
The comment he made is simply to state the fact that turning off HVAC in the winter can show you how much more range the car will have. I have don't drive with the HVAC off; I have a Niro EV because I wanted to be able to drive in the winter with no compromises and my 300km of winter range is with lots of heating (23C), heated seats, heated steering, radio on, Android Auto, and driving like a normal person. I don't think anyone will be put off of EVs because of the comment.
I don't understand how you could get the same range in winter as the summer. The "cold" hard fact is that cold air is more dense than warm and it simply takes more energy to push through it. Also, I think most winter tires have a higher rolling resistance than stock EV tires. I have a 2018 40kwh Leaf S. The base model has no heat pump. I have found that the heated seats and steering wheel make driving quite comfortable in temperatures down to freezing only using the PTC heater for clearing foggy or frosted windows. Kudos to Nissan for providing those as standard equipment along with a modest battery heater for Canadian models. At my age my next vehicle may well be my last so I would like it to be very durable. My concern with heat pumps is that air conditioning inevitably seems to fail as vehicles reach a certain age and becomes very difficult, expensive or impossible to repair. My concern with liquid cooled/heated batteries is that cooling systems can develop leaks as a vehicle ages. Imagine a coolant containing a water mix leaking into an enclosure with 400 DC volts. What could go wrong? I've gone back to taking my ancient (22 yrs old) ICE vehicle out for the longer runs in the winter. They must be driven a certain amount to keep the brakes from rusting and the seals from drying out. The waste heat proves useful needless to say and it beats the pants sitting at a charger in the cold eating a half frozen lunch when there's no dining facility nearby. (Many were closed because of COVID).
I should have put a bit more in terms of details. You are correct, the cold air increases resistance and reduces range. What I mentioned is that it can be possible, but in certain conditions, regardless of it being -20C, or 0C. If the battery is warm, from either being in a garage, or from having fast charged, and if you are not driving lots of highway, it is possible to see similar range in the winter as in the summer if you are not using the HVAC. You are correct, overall winter conditions will reduce range on all cars no matter what you do. Regarding the liquid thermal management, modern EVs use a low conductivity coolant that is made EVs. That is the reason it is so expensive to replace when the time comes. It is far better to keep the battery healthy with a quality liquid thermal management than to have a battery that degrades prematurely, has significant range loss, and affects daily use within 2 to 4 years. I think you would appreciate the EV experience more if you had a different car, one with more range and faster quick charging. Something to consider, because for me, having driven over 58,000km in 2.5 years in my Niro EV, including 2000km and 3000km trips, I would never go back to ICE.
I would add that stronger winds are more likely in the winter. According to Murphy's rules, head winds. Bob Wilson
Very true on both points. But if you keep your vehicle speed low enough the denser air can be less of a factor. As @bwilson4web points out, wind is a huge factor. The MINI Cooper SE is much less aerodynamic than cars like Tesla at higher speeds, so I really notice a range drop in windy conditions. I put Nokian snow tires on my SE, which have a very low rolling resistance, and found with my heat turned off in -3 ºF temperatures I was getting very high mi/kWh (4.8 in winter versus 5.2-5.4 in summer). The EU label for the tires show they're quite good (the "B" rating on the left): The purpose of my test was to measure battery effectiveness at very cold temperatures, and I was pleasantly surprised at how well they did (the SE has CATL batteries).
