Toyota and others covering up declining sales numbers?

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by 101101, Apr 9, 2021.

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  1. 101101

    101101 Well-Known Member

    The news is full of sponsored articles claiming record sales for Toyota last year at 9.2m globally and higher projected for this year. Sound face value right to you for ICE based Toyota? Record sales sounds right for Tesla but Tesla actually gets scrutinized. If you look on google you see page after page of official Toyota charts that block out what actually seems to be happening. Statista had Toyota sales at 10.7 million in 2017 and historically Toyota's sales have been as high as 12 million at least if you go back far as the 90s. BMW might want to have the SEC take a look at that in the interest of equal treatment- or it might not because it makes the Tesla case that much stronger.

    If you're having trouble finding numbers for Toyota that aren't hidden behind a paywall- search for "years Toyota outsold VW." Also note how it seems like Toyota has been able to paywall or even firewall its 2011 to current data- that's the problem with sponsored conflict of interest based search- could call it employer based search or trickle down lie based media- just call it propaganda. Seems like a case of misleading potential investors on behalf of current investors.

    A lot of companies have had their sales cut in half since the 90s. What gives? Well, for one, car prices have doubled. But thats about rule of 72 level inflation. Its not like cars are really lasting longer. Toyota, BMW and Mercedes were far better quality in the early 90s. I don't think current cars last longer but some like GM and Ford are better than they were. They do perform better and current ICE produces a little less emissions. It can't really be share taken by newly consolidated groups and lots of new entrants like Huyndai-Tata-BYD. The new consolidations consolidated because it was either that or fail- consolidation is a management downsizing by ejection of management. Its not like we have a sense of total vehicles declining in the face of an increasing population and supposed global economic growth. It could be that given these are fossil fuel entities the industry has had a long history of lying about its numbers and when pushed hiding behind Cheney style bogus national security claims and this is only showing up now as we transition away from the old paragdigm?

    But in the case of companies that have to lie about their sales that would seem to suggest their share values are perhaps too high- not investment advice!! Saw BMW and Lexus and Mercedes all claiming almost the same exact number of sales in the US last year at 275k which looks like ICE makers colluding in lying and misleading the public and investors. Mercedes does articles about how its ICE vehicles are an "engines of profit." That's like doing an ad that says "Mercedes isn't lying." Maybe these are filler from media which has extorted sponsor subscriptions with nothing positive to report?
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  3. gooki

    gooki Active Member

    Unit sales 2018

    Unit sales 2019

    Unit sales 2020
    10,457,000 (10,740,000 forecast)

    Unit sales 2021
    8,900,000 forecast

    All figures from Toyotas financial statements.
    DaleL, turtleturtle and bwilson4web like this.
  4. 101101

    101101 Well-Known Member

    Perfect but you'd never know it by the utter blsht the CARB resisting self charging hydrogen scam promoting tall tales Toyota has been putting out in the 'sponsored' (bribed based) media. Here is an example but far from the most egregious:

    But good to see it hasn't corrupted the financial statements too much- hard to believe that would be the case with BMW. My suspicion is the entire ICE industry is pulling an Enron with its books. There were some academics that did a paper recently that said the fastest way to get rid of the fossil fuel industry would be for the public to find out about its actual finances and costs and they weren't talking about externalities just the basics. Look at GM with Nikola and now it seems Lord's Town too. My sense is companies that will lie in the media (akin to false advertisement and misleading potential and current investors) will do creative Enron style accounting and they will have help from the big accounting and legal firms in doing it. You can balance that against their obligation not to let pessimism and negativity kill off their future. And in Toyota's case you can balance it against the support of a state that won't let it disappear without do overs and the recent rumors of partnering with Tesla again.
  5. gooki

    gooki Active Member

    The ICE industry definitely cooks the books by counting sales to the dealer as sales. So they'll run end of quarter/end of year promos to get dealers to take as much stock as they can so the manufacturer can hit their numbers.

    This would all be fine if the dealers were actually paying for the cars during those promos. But they're not. Often they are getting this extra stock without having to pay a cent for 30 to 90 days.
  6. Recoil45

    Recoil45 Active Member

    Car demand is off the charts right now. If you didn't notice you are not paying attention. And yes, the super majority of car sales are powered by traditional gas and Diesel engine. This will be case for many years to come.

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    DaleL likes this.
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