The exponential RAMP is happening!

Discussion in 'General' started by TeslaInvestors, May 15, 2018.

Which alternative fuel will win the race in 10 years?

  1. Battery electrics/plug ins (BEV/PHEV)

    4 vote(s)
    80.0%
  2. Fuel Cell Electric cars (FCEV)

    1 vote(s)
    20.0%
  3. Hybrids

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. Something else

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. The fuel cell car sales are picking up fast in California! The exponential ramp we have all been hearing for years is finally happening! In the world of fuel cell cars. With its ease and speed of refueling, and no danger of shrapnel like battery shootouts after a fire, it comes as little surprise.

    https://cleanvehiclerebate.org/eng/rebate-statistics
    fcev_rampup.PNG
     
  2. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web Active Member

    April 2018:
    Code:
    Total Auto Sales 1350000
    Total Hybrid       25019
    Total Diesel        9940
    Total PHEV          9807
    Total BEV           9589
    Total Fuel Cell      247
    
    The fuel cell blip is an artifact of the Honda Clarity fuel cell vehicle coming on the market. It did this by eating Mirai sales:
    Code:
    model 04/15/18 03/15/18 02/15/18 01/15/18
    Mirai       76       83      166      213
    Clarity    156      121      249        0
    Tucson      15        0        1        1
    
    Bob Wilson
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2018
  3. Source please.
     
  4. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web Active Member

  5. Pushmi-Pullyu

    Pushmi-Pullyu Well-Known Member

    "Ease" of refueling? Finding one of the few hydrogen fueling stations that's actually open and actually will sell you a full tank of fuel (and not just half a tank) is often not easy at all!

    Is there some sort of playbook or source document that hardcore BEV/Tesla bashers use to copy fool cell fanboy nonsense from, as part of their propaganda campaign against Tesla and battery-electric vehicles in general? This looks very much like the fool cell fanboy nonsense that Martin Williams posts here.

    The truth about hydrogen fuel cell cars, and the "hydrogen economy" hoax, can be found here:

    "How to Promote the Hydrogen Economy Hoax"

    Hydrogen powered vehicles are not a fire hazard? :confused: :eek: o_O

    I guess TeslaInvestors doesn't know what happened to the Hindenberg. Oh, the humanity!

     
    Last edited: May 16, 2018
  6. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web Active Member

    The nearly invisible flame as well as the high range of air-to-hydrogen combustion makes it a hazard. Just I've not seen anyone post about the risk of a high-pressure, hydrogen gas, knife. At these pressures, 10,000 psi, a leak would be invisible but if a hand were exposed, it would literally cut it to pieces.

    Bob Wilson
     
  7. Pushmi-Pullyu

    Pushmi-Pullyu Well-Known Member

    At NASA, when looking for the leak in a tank of hydrogen fuel, since a burning jet of hydrogen is more-or-less invisible, they would (perhaps still do) have to slowly walk around the tank holding a piece of cardboard in front of them. The idea was that they would (hopefully) see the cardboard char before they walked into the jet.

    I don't actually think that using hydrogen, even highly compressed hydrogen, to power a car is all that dangerous. As I understand it, the tanks are wrapped in a carbon fiber bag which is supposed to catch any fragments if the tank explodes.

    However, highly compressed hydrogen can be very dangerous under the wrong circumstances, especially if ignited by a spark or static electricity. It's rather mind-boggling to see fool cell fanboys try to promote fool cell cars as being less of a fire hazard than battery-electric vehicles!

     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 18, 2018 at 11:35 AM
  8. The only thing I see going up in flames are the hydrogen FUDsters and the fans of some charlatan who calls it "fool cell".
    Here is an eye opener (whom am I kidding).


    This is way safer that shrapnel like shooting toothbrush batteries in the Tesla car fires. This won't keep reigniting for 6 whole days like the Tesla battery packs.
    Hydrogen can't burn by itself; it needs a massive amount of oxygen to burn. So the high pressure hydrogen will just escape, causing the fire to be far and away. Hard for oxygen at atmospheric pressure to get into the tank.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2018
  9. Martin Williams

    Martin Williams Active Member

    I suppose we'll have to wait until there are a number of accidents before we can make any sensible analysis of how safe or dangerous these cars are. Certainly, precautions to prevent the most obvious risks are in place, but there is always the unexpected.
     
  10. Pushmi-Pullyu

    Pushmi-Pullyu Well-Known Member

    Oh, are we going to talk about real-world science and physics now? I thought you wanted to stick to the wishful thinking science denier fantasies of fool cell fanboys who are promoting the "hydrogen economy" hoax.

    Yes, what you say here is true, and I've pointed out the same in past comments. Too bad you aren't willing to look at reality when it comes to how horribly wasteful and utterly impractical it is to try to use hydrogen as a fuel for wheeled vehicles. It's very nearly the worst possible choice.

    Make up your mind, dude. Either stick to real physics, or don't. You can't have it both ways.

     
  11. Martin Williams

    Martin Williams Active Member

    I think the sheer convenience of hydrogen will win out in the end. Battery cars are a pain in so many ways compared to ICE vehicles. Hydrogen vehicles are every bit as convenient.

    Battery enthusiasts do not seem to understand that unless you are an enthusiast for them (and 99 out of a hundred are NOT) having to plan the charging regime, remember to plug them in in time for a long journey and constantly fiddling about with cables and chargers or looking for charging points is just a pure nuisance.

    We'll have to see how safe hydrogen cars are, but I am quite sure that they are rather less dangerous than sitting on half a ton of Lithium ion batteries!
     
  12. Pushmi-Pullyu

    Pushmi-Pullyu Well-Known Member

    Hydrogen powered cars are not utterly impractical because they are a fire hazard, nor will auto makers stop mass producing them within a few years because they are a fire hazard. That will happen for other reasons; much more obvious reasons.

     

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