Solid State Batteries

Discussion in 'General' started by Jim J Fox, May 10, 2018.

  1. Jim J Fox

    Jim J Fox Member

  2. Domenick

    Domenick Administrator Staff Member

    If you do some digging, you'll find that this battery, used by Bolloré for its EVs used in its BlueIndy, BlueLA, and Autolib car sharing service, has low energy density. Pretty sure there was another issue with the tech too.

    It's really quite a bit different from the solid state batteries being developed now by a number of companies, which supposedly offer much higher density than today's lithium ion cells, as well as much better power density.

    As a side note, we just published a piece with Henrik Fisker saying in an interview he hopes to have solid state batteries ready to launch at the same time as the Fisker EMotion.
     
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  3. Jim J Fox

    Jim J Fox Member

    In 4 years it has become obsolete- makes sense. Here's another breakthrough-- "Ionic Materials"
    https://www.businesswire.com/news/h...Materials-Raises-65-Million-Speed-Development
    A number of high-profile investors in this one; still looks like 10 years to commercial use, though.
    Fisker has such a bad reputation; quoting him is not too credible. I'm finding battery advances frustrating & a bit depressing.
     
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  4. Pushmi-Pullyu

    Pushmi-Pullyu Well-Known Member

    It's best to treat claims for a breakthrough battery with a huge amount of skepticism. On the now-defunct TheEEstory forum, we used to see about one new (or sometimes recycled) claim for a breakthru battery tech every two weeks. Yet in years of forum discussion, not a single one of those claimed breakthroughs ever resulted in a commercial product.

    "The storage battery is, in my opinion, a catchpenny, a sensation, a mechanism for swindling the public by stock companies. The storage battery is one of those peculiar things which appeals to the imagination, and no more perfect thing could be desired by stock swindlers than that very selfsame thing. ... Just as soon as a man gets working on the secondary battery it brings out his latent capacity for lying." -- Thomas Edison, 1883
    * * * * *

    "My top advice really for anyone who says they've got some breakthrough battery technologies, please send us a sample cell, okay, don't send us PowerPoint. Just send us one cell that works with all appropriate caveats; that would be great. That... sorts out the nonsense and the claims that aren't actually true. Talk is super cheap; the battery industry has to have more B.S. in it than any industry I've ever encountered. It's insane." -- Elon Musk, Nov. 5, 2014
    That one has me quite interested! The principal of the startup was confident enough to show the tech to a documentary crew from PBS's "Nova". It does look quite promising, altho there are fundamental questions which have not been answered, such as cost, power density, and cycle life.

    Yes, Ionic Materials is still some years away from actually putting their "plastic battery" into production... if that proves feasible. But 10 years? I hope it won't take that long!

     
  5. NeilBlanchard

    NeilBlanchard Active Member

  6. Pushmi-Pullyu

    Pushmi-Pullyu Well-Known Member

    That one I remember from discussion on TheEEStory forum.

    The Kolibri ("hummingbird") battery turned out to be a hoax; just a publicity stunt. As I recall, it wasn't a claim for a solid state battery; just a claim for a li-ion battey with a quantum jump in energy density at half the price, or something like that.

    Oddly enough, the hoax was from an established (if small) German battery maker, DBM. DBM did eventually market a Kolibri battery for stationary home energy storage, but it was nothing special. Quite comparable to existing li-ion battery packs aimed at the home solar market, and certainly not lower in price per kWh.

    According to an (external) forum discussion of the Kolibri battery, in October 2012, someone who sent an inquiry to DBM about using a Kolibri battery in a DIY electric car received the following response:

    Many thanks for your inquiry.

    Unfortunately, we have to inform you that –in spite of the flexible versatility of the kolibri high-performance storage- we decided to focus on production and distribution of stationary storage systems. Therefor we kindly ask for your understanding.

    You will find our business activities on our websites http://www.kolibri-ag.com/en/products.html.

    See discussion of the Kolibri battery (and the claims which turned out to be a hoax) here: http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/dbm-kolibri-not-so-goodi-79259.html

     
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