Signs that Porsche's Mission E isn't serious- really compliance type stuff

Discussion in 'General' started by 101101, Mar 2, 2018.

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  1. 101101

    101101 Well-Known Member

    1. Porsche has been making dishonest marketing claims lately through some of its program heads (not its actual head.) The problem for Porches when it is less than honest is that it has some of the most educated and knowledgeable customers there are. Even if they are fanatics they know when their beloved make is lying to them and they know its a sign of lack of confidence. To be fair Porsche has a cannibalism problem foreseeable future, if it make the mission E as good as it should be (which it will have to stop the hemorrhaging and compete with Tesla) it will be signaling that its other vehicle lines are ready for the bargain bin.

    2. On the contrary given how easy it is to beat petrol tech and given how much time Porsche has had its clearly holding back which screams compliance car. Its already known that it won't be the highest performing Porsche but given how late in the game it is then why even make it. Its just a place holder. The designers are being intentionally held back. Is that what the buyers of the Porsche brand want are they into pay a no compromise price for compromise- that's a brand destroyer. Its like learning a boxer was paid to take a fall.

    3. We've seen early power train mach ups or prototypes and they have mechanical junk protruding into the trunk and frunk area way up- indicating countless design mistakes because in that they must still be trying to recycle their petrol parts bin making a hybrid that can't take gas vice an actual pure electric. No one need hydraulics and pumps and pulleys that is all extraneous crap.

    4. The styling is questionable. I know Tesla borrowed the worst feature- the foreskin snake molting, crows feet slackened rubber front end, but they need to clean that up.

    So to be clear when I say its compliance type stuff, I am saying yes even if Porsche doesn't have the volume for the full compliance dance its really just another fake and its true compliance in that its trying to signal to its customers it could stay in the game if it had to but its still wrongly hedging.

    Porsche, you're warm up was 10 years ago, not 2 years from now. You're bringing a Blackberry to fight a 5 generation iPhone. Seems like the first real refresh of the S and X are just about out in a month or 2- you'll be getting hit there too. Right up to the refresh there has been no slackening of demand. Send your best engineers back to school or cash them out full retirement and replace with people with the right specialties, divest your petrol ties right down to your board and purge its investment influence. The house of Porsche is on fire, can't take your time.
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  3. Feed The Trees

    Feed The Trees Active Member

    seems like a cool car to me.
  4. Roy_H

    Roy_H Active Member

    Even though I am an ardent Tesla fan, I disagree strongly with your post. Porsche has a loyal following of petro-heads and they would be foolish to abandon them. They made a good decision to bring out the Mission as a separate brand and not an electric 911. This will allow their customers to come into their dealership and choose BEV vs ICE instead of being forced one way or the other. If a petro-head cannot buy an ICE Porsche then he will switch brands. If a loyal Porsche owner wants to trade up to electric, he can buy a Mission.

    Porsche is putting a lot of money and a whole new factory for the Mission E, it is not a compliance car. And whatever belts and pulleys you saw would only be in a mule, the production car will be all electric.
    Domenick and 101101 like this.
  5. 101101

    101101 Well-Known Member

    I hope you're right about the stack above the skate as seen on every petrol maker vehicle but not seen in Teslas.

    Also I should note that Porsche started making its claim that its electrics won't get winded before the New Roadster intro. And when they beat Tesla to the punch launching maybe a year before the Roadster release and for less money that will be a solid achievement.
    But here is the thing. Tesla actually demonstrated that tech with all night long drives in its roadster with no fade and no winding at a much higher performance level than Porsche is talking about. And Porsche knows this. Here is something else that may be critical here. Tesla's refreshed S and X will likely beat Porsche's Mission E. to market and these may be the first major refresh. They may beat Porsche to market with the no fade tech. Again Porsche knows all this and unless I am mistaken has never demonstrated its not fade tech or approach but Tesla has.

    So these means Porsche is deck stacking and misleading the public. My personal feeling is that companies that lie or intentionally mislead the public need to be out of business and even facing fines and execs that lie to the public or otherwise need to be fired. I get how there is a snap in on products so that people can learn to see the finer qualities and be happy with the purchase, its part of customer education and I get how exuberance can lead to exaggeration but if you deceive your customer even over the competitions capabilities you've betrayed then and deserve to lose their business.
  6. Roy_H

    Roy_H Active Member

    Believe it or not, but I suspect Chevy's Bolt motor represents the pinnacle of motor design. It uses rare earth magnets in the rotor and only with the new Model 3 has Tesla finally gone this route. This is most common design in the industry, but variations in magnet placement, size, motor windings, clearances, and cooling will differentiate some designs being better than others. Tesla's older squirrel cage induction motors ran hotter. You appear to be condemning Porsche before even knowing if they will live up to their claims.
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  8. 101101

    101101 Well-Known Member

    You may be right, but I don't want smack talk from them. I also don't like how the mission E won't out perform their other cars when it clearly should, but I get that that they have cannibalization to be concerned with in the short and medium term. I think they should be honest. I somehow expect more from them than any German make but when we get down to it they are Volkswagen the same people who did Diesel gate and who go back and forth on how aggressively they will pursue electrification. Also what did Porsche ever gain from being acquired by German commodity make? And to be honest the Mission E a year from now is slated to be more than half a second slower than even the current generation Model X SUV at 3.5 0-6 vs 2.9 for the X. Granted the X even today is more expensive by a mile but it probably take a lot of fade to knock half a second off the X's speed to put it in the range of the Mission E. Also, what are the pre-orders like for the Mission E? I expect the dual motor Model 3 will perform as well as the Mission E for about same price and I have to wonder how much fade it will experience. X fade or not there will be countless videos of the Mission E getting beat by a Model X SUV at the track on Youtube. Might be videos with this happening with all the seats in the X occupied.

    Here is what I really think is going to happen: The stats of the dual motor Model 3 and the refreshed S will cause the Mission E to be delayed because its aiming way too low and the sales will be embarrassing otherwise. I don't even think its planned charge speed advantage will hold. But maybe not as Porsche should still be able to pull off handling. Its not just petrol based conflicts of interest that are in the way, Porsche being owned by its commodity maker is still a profit oriented firm (that is to say weak) whereas Tesla like Apple once was is a mission oriented firm (strong.) Profit is a stupid distraction, a sort of theft most of the time and too often inversely proportional to social profit. Profit oriented firms place the greed of their rent seeking owners above the good of their customers and are basically lazy seeking to offer minimum acceptable quality that has been cored out for profit or the most compromised product that they can get away with. So at Porsche they don't want a car that will squeeze profit margins and calculate loss of market share against loss of margin and always prioritize loss of margin where they can but in this case loss of share is apt to quickly be loss of profit. Porsche pays a dividend, which is pathetic beyond belief, that is money that should go to its non executive employees or only available to special stock issued to non executive employees. First thing Porsche should have done is cancelled the damned dividend- like a credit card that can't be paid off. They haven't from what I can tell so again really not serious at all.

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