Replacing Trump with Corbyn

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by 101101, Nov 29, 2017.

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  1. 101101

    101101 Well-Known Member

    Can't wait for Jeremy to take over. What the typical Fortune 1000 CEO and board member does should get them locked up for 1000 life times with full asset forefiture. Can't wait to be rid of the bribery based society and the ejection of Trump.
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  3. Scramjett

    Scramjett Member

    How is a British politician going to replace an American President? Unless you're moving to Britain?
  4. 101101

    101101 Well-Known Member

    Just by setting the good example. We got social security out of the Bolshevik revolution.

    Trump is hanging by a thread anyway. I am guessing that messing with net neutrality will cause the same people who put him in office to remove him. Lost by 3 million votes but still ended up in office because a certain hacker type constituency didn't like Hilary on Assange or Hilary on Iran (nuclear WW3) and prevailed on the electoral college at the last minute. Didn't help that she lost to Bernie- probably another point of leverage.
    But Trump is going the way of Hillary. Hilary would have only raised taxes on the rich on a 200 trillion GNP over 10 years by a trillion- nothing. Trump will lower it by 1.4 Trillion over 10 years just undoing the Obama quite tax hike on the rich at the end. But guessing Republucans just picked a fight on profit for censorship over neutrality with at least a million hackers, which I am guessing will now remove him and utterly destroy the republican party.
    Lesson: countries and markets are yesterday, the network has arrived. A government telling the people blatently it is going to censor them, in the name of private profit but blaming the poor over didgital like they blamed loans to the poor for 07 petrol caused collapse, such a state has lost its legitemacy.

    This taking out of the garbage will be good for EVs.
  5. Will Corbyn even stand in the next election after losing the last one to May?

    Besides that, I'm pretty sure this US administration isn't going to be taking notes from anyone, no matter how successful.

    Also, since I haven't heard a single Democrat say they will take steps to reestablish net neutrality if elected, I doubt it will ever happen. It's officially a lost cause, sadly.
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  6. 101101

    101101 Well-Known Member

    Its like saying free speech is a lost cause. Imagine what will happen when people have to pay for free porn. Its the furthest thing from a lost cause. 99% of the people hate the destruction of speech as they intuitively know its how you loose your rights is an attempted prelude to taking rights. The population is completely against turning the internet into cable TV and Fox News, its akin to replacing cell phones with megaphones. Corbyn destroyed May in the last election that is why she is hanging by a thread now, a thread that will snap. And it matters hugely,

    America has been shifting hard to the left, Berne clearly beat Hilary and Hilary beat Trump by 3 million votes. I expect the removal of the Trump admin, Gorsuch and the Republican party. The right is going to get stuffed. That will happen naturally because of demographic shifts and because the right has fielded nothing but oppressor idiots but this shift will only radically accelerate with stuff like AI.
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2017
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  8. Scramjett

    Scramjett Member

    @101101: I envy your optimism. I’ve been politically entuned for nearly 20 years and if it’s one thing I’ve learned, it’s that expecting the kinds of changes you’re talking about will not come from either of the major parties. And there will be no third parties to save us either. Trust me, net neutrality is gone and not coming back ever again, the tax cuts are permanent, and both parties are throwing our rights and liberties under the bus. It has a lot to do with how the political class and billionaire donor class view us. We’re not people to them. We’re a mindless nebulous mass to be manipulated.

    If you don’t believe me, ask yourself this question: why can tax cuts pass with a simple majority of Republicans, but you can’t even pass a meager tax increase with a super majority of Democrats? The answer is because they both answer to their real constituents: the billionaire donor class. The fact is that we have a far right party and a center right party. We don’t even have a center left party let alone a left wing party.
    Domenick likes this.
  9. 101101

    101101 Well-Known Member

    What we have are millenials who will be 75% of work force in maybe 7 years as plus 80% socialist.And yet we have people who think a bribery based society where rule by money or people as property is inevitable. We have people who think they can put the brown back in the plantation. When you say Net neutrality is not coming back its as if you assume they will succeed with that in the first place- there is more involved than the unconstitutional legal dictum- they cant even keep their silly secrets and the current net is based on a week server type set up. You're talking about the most extreme election rigging.

    The one thing that should have scared them about OWS is that it was relatively peaceful. I don't think AI drones and gated communities save these people. I don't see rule by the stupid and malevolent as stable enough to survive. In 07 the Bush admin brought the country to the edge of collapse. And note when the petrol wars ceased momentarily that the defense budget increased 50% to a trillion a year- how much of that is going to petrol subsidy?

    We only have the right because we allowed a sponsored media. Sponsorship is the greatest conflict of interest imaginable. We will get rid of the sponsored media, as sponsorship is money based censorship and the cause of these problems. But I wouldn't bet against the people in favor of the idiot Republicans and a billionaire class. If predictable violence comes neither of these will survive. They wouldn't survive even a close call. They certainly won't be able to keep petrol alive.

    Here are the values:

    1. Both parents work 3 unecessary jobs at will, no minimum, at will, no cost of living and 'employers' able to black ball.

    2. No health care and no emergency rooms.

    3. No retirement.

    4. No freedom of speech and no free press, profit for censorship and spin.

    5. No real eduction just propaganda.

    6. Unregulated markets with monopoly and oligopoly.

    6. Corporations free to poison people no recourse and no tort.

    7. Ethinic rule.

    8. The rich tax the poor, lower wages, collude to raise prices.

    9. Social mobility is reduced to whor--ing

    10. Rule by the stupid, with psychopathic, sociopathic or at best arbitrary rules, but supporr for privilege and the core value that the most important thing is that some people are better than others and establishing pecking order is the most important thing.

    In short people stripped of their rights and kept down. Raw oppression by a above all stupid criminal oppressor class- in short the return of the antebellum South. My opinion is their lives aren't worth this and don't bet on the stupid. Especially now in the post work era.
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2017
  10. Scramjett

    Scramjett Member

    @101101: I’m having a bad day today, so take this for what it’s worth:

    I think your faith in millennials is misplaced. Given that they are predominantly part of the technocratic class, they are, more often than not, anti-union and anti-labor. Otherwise google, Apple & amazon would be unionized. Even the boomers who were by and large hippies and “socialists” eventually went overwhelmingly for Reagan. They either turned Republican or became “Reagan Democrats.”

    I suggest you read Naomi Klein’s book “This Changes Everything.” In the last chapter, she talks about past social movements. One of the most interesting aspects was that oppressed groups, wether ethnic or labor, got improved legal status but not improved economic status. (One specific example is the abolitionist movement where slavery ended and former slaves got legal status as free people, but reparations went to former slave owners in a sort of reverse reconciliation. Even former colonies were forced to pay colonial governments or risk armed incursions). History shows that economic circumstances rarely improve for the majority at the expense of the elites. I expect that this will remain true.
    Domenick likes this.
  11. 101101

    101101 Well-Known Member

    Like Kleins stuff. But note the Asian demographic- seems to be an exception.
    Also Persians in actual conus. Just had for me pessimistic, Trump seems like the best chance we've had to flush the cons.

    I've heard it said that after the embargo petrol profit got nixed starting toward the 2nd half of Carter admin and stayed nationalized for more than a decade. I think something similar on the surface happened during Obama except for the defense budget doubled and have to wonder how much of that extra 500 billion a year was petrol subsidy.
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  13. Scramjett

    Scramjett Member

    I'd like to think that we can flush some cons, and a headline I saw today is encouraging (Republican membership is declining since Trump while Democratic membership holds steady). However, if Dems follow their historical pattern, they'll take that to mean that they need to run Republican-lite campaigns. Frankly, I think these defecting Republicans will do the same as a lot of the Democratic base who feel disenfranchised...not show up to vote. Largely because they feel disenfranchised. I know because I'm one of them. Last year, I voted, but I left a lot of blank spots on my ballot because the choices were bad or ugly. And I can't write in anyone (outside of President) because California's top two vote system (designed to push populists out and keep only corporate politicians) doesn't allow write-in candidates.

    I think a better historical corollary is the 1910's and 1920's. Obama was basically like Woodrow Wilson without the racism, making a show of populism while secretly siding with bankers and corporate elites. Trump is basically Harding without the good looks. I'm waiting for the next Black Tuesday when things will REALLY get bad!
    101101 likes this.
  14. Scramjett

    Scramjett Member

    Point of clarification: I meant that I'm someone who's disenfranchised, not that I'm Republican. No way! Never have been, and unless they have an amazing change of political identity that shifts them further left than the Dems, I never will be! I'm not holding my breath for that to happen since neither party has ever really been a leftist populist party.
    101101 likes this.
  15. Pushmi-Pullyu

    Pushmi-Pullyu Well-Known Member

    Trump is utterly unlike any previous president, thank goodness! We've never had a president who was actively trying to sabotage and/or destroy major portions of the government, or one who is utterly indifferent to what's good for the country, and utterly indifferent to America's global reputation and influence, in favor of his own self-aggrandizement and enrichment.

    It's going to take many years and major efforts by future administrations to repair all the damage Trump is doing to this country and its reputation. I only pray that none of the damage he has done or will do is irreparable, and I pray every day for a swift end to his disastrous, depraved, and possibly treasonous occupation of the White House. I'd much rather see him removed as mentally incompetent, under the 25th Amendment, than impeached and convicted, because removal under the 25th could be accomplished much more swiftly and without nearly as much unnecessary drama.
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2017
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  16. Scramjett

    Scramjett Member

    True, Harding wrecked the government by being incompetent. Trump has that magical combo of both actively wrecking the government AND being incompetent. As much as I’d like him to go away (and the 25th would be a more palatable process), let’s not forget who would take his place...Pence. In fact, the current Presidential line of succession is fugly and awful. The one positive thing about Trump, such as it is, is that he’s unintentionally exposing how most politicians and their operatives work and is so willfully wrecking and starving the public sphere and so willfully robbing the poor to provide for the rich (vs. previous politicians and Presidents who were more covert about it) that he is raising the ire of the public to the point where we might have a sliver of a chance in booting out of office a large majority of pro-finance and pro-corporate politicians, on both sides of the aisle, throughout the country.

    Wow, coming from me, that almost sounded positive! Now for the negative...I’m not holding my breath. I’m too damn cynical to believe anything will improve for the better any time soon...if at all. At the risk of sounding like a conspiracy theorist, I strongly suspect that the military/intelligence/security industrial complexes have contingency plans for progressive politicians to prevent them from dismantling their apparatus. I’ve been considering moving to Europe, but then I recently discovered that neo-nazis have started occupying seats in various parliaments for the first time since WWII. That’s alarming! I’m starting to think that there will be a new fascist era soon. I’d say “God help us all” but if there is a God, He’s probably given up on us and moved on to species’ with better prospects.
  17. Pushmi-Pullyu

    Pushmi-Pullyu Well-Known Member

    Your comments read very much like what one of my best friends says, one who wants El Trumpo to stay in office long enough to ensure the Democrats have a clean sweep in the mid-terms, to ensure Democrats control both the Senate and the House before El Trumpo is removed from office.

    I can sympathize with the motive behind that argument, but I think El Trumpo is so damaging to the basic institutions of democracy and law-and-order that I think every day he remains in occupation of the White House is disastrous for the United States of America, and therefore that destruction should be ended as swiftly as possible.

    And yes, I realize that Pence would be very far from an ideal choice for President. He's one of the crazy hard right wingnuts who is so far removed from reality he actually believes someone can "pray the gay away".

    But then, Bush Jr. also suffered from the fault of preferring his wishful thinking to reality. That's why the U.S. wound up making an unprovoked and unnecessary invasion of Iraq, with the excuse of stopping Saddam from making imaginary weapons of mass destruction; and the Bush Jr. administration performed that invasion with far, far fewer troops than were necessary to keep order in the country after Saddam's regime was toppled, again due to wishful thinking and willfully ignoring what the experts were telling them.

    However, altho Bush Jr.'s administration was damaging to this country, and reduced our standing in the world, Bush Jr.'s administration did not actually endanger basic democracy or the rule of law, as El Trumpo is doing. El Trumpo's administration is tearing at the basic fabric of our democracy. I don't see Pence as someone who would actively try to sabotage major governmental institutions or sabotage the U.S.'s standing in the world just to further his own self-aggrandizement. I think Pence's actions as Veep have shown he would prefer a far more reasonable path than El Trump's intentional destruction of democratic values and governmental institutions. In short, Pence shows no sign of wanting to become a dictator, or of attacking institutions and destroying traditions which would restrict him from becoming a full-blown dictator, as El Trumpo does on a daily basis.

    Those who think that the U.S. could not possibly fragment into warring factions such as we see in Iraq or Syria or Somalia or Rwanda... They need to think again. They also need to read Sinclair Lewis' It Can't Happen Here. I'm entirely serious about that; here's a link to that novel at Project Gutenberg Australia:

    It Can't Happen Here by Sinclair Lewis
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2017
  18. 101101

    101101 Well-Known Member

    If he doesnt end up cause everyone,s death Trump is fantastic because we can finally flush the toilet on the criminal Republicans.

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