Pure Speculation - 2019 Insight PHEV???

Discussion in 'Clarity' started by Kieran973, Mar 16, 2018.

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  1. Kieran973

    Kieran973 New Member

    I'm just curious: what do people think are the chances that the 2019 Honda Insight will include a PHEV variant? To be clear, I have no evidence whatsoever that this may happen. I mostly just want it to happen. Because it makes sense. If Honda really wants to compete with the Prius Prime and Ioniq PHEV (which are compacts), then the Clarity PHEV isn't enough - the Clarity PHEV is competition for the Sonata PHEV. So then why not a 3,500 pound Insight PHEV with 35-40 miles of electric range, 120 mpge (EV), and 52 mpg (HV)?
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  3. jdonalds

    jdonalds Well-Known Member

    I already don't get why Honda had both a Clarity and an Accord. I think they should have combined the best parts of both and called them an Accord. To add a third with the Insight just adds to the confusion.

    Yes if the Insight is $10K cheaper it makes sense. But if they trimmed down to just one PHEV with economies of scale they might have a killer of a car for a reasonable price.

    Honda's target for the Clarity is 75,000 cars over five years. Combine all three and shoot for 500,000 to a million!
  4. Ben007

    Ben007 New Member

    I had the same question about Accord Hybrid vs Clarity. It seems the Accord Hybrid would be better for someone who drives mostly long routes on highways, as the MPG is slightly better than the Clarity under this scenario and in this scenario the EV range would not make such a difference. But the reason may just be they are two parallel development streams at Honda.
    They have officially announced the Insight as hybrid and have not mentioned a PHEV model, but my sales person told me internally they have announced the possibility of a Insight PHEV.

    Sent from my iPad using Inside EVs
  5. ab13

    ab13 Active Member

    Much different sized vehicles. The 2018 Accord is huge compared to last year, similar to Sonata and BMW 5 series, bigger than Camry. Previously the Accord was always narrower. The Insight is the Civic class vehicle, BMW 3 series size. Not everyone wants a large sedan.

    Regarding whether there will be a phev of the Insight, if it happens it would be later.

    The biggest design issue for batteries is the chassis package design. It's the reason the Clarity EV has a small battery, unless they took all the truck space there is no more room for batteries. The GVWR limits the battery capacity in the package also. It has everything else for an EV design except that space, since it was never designed for that purpose.

    There is another new vehicle coming in 2019, a mid sized SUV. There is little news but similar to Ford Edge in size, unknown power train, some reports say V6 but others have indicated hybrid possibly.
  6. PHEV Newbie

    PHEV Newbie Well-Known Member

    Many consumers and car mag pundits were howling that if car companies would just build hybrids that didn't look so weird (yes, they were talking about the Prius), they'd buy. Honda went that route (after the original Insight) and it went pretty badly for them. Over time, the Prius did really well (especially when gas was pushing $5/gallon) so Honda decided to cover all the bases. Clarity is the electrified platform (Hydrogen-electric, BEV, PHEV) that is distinctive and perhaps a bit weird by design to go the Prius route. They are also continuing the hybridization of their regular cars. BTW, the CRV was just introduced in hybrid form for Europe, where it is bound to sell well (not slated for the US currently). All Honda's hybrids (and Clarity) use the same drive design. Atkinson ICE + 2 electric motors that works mostly as a series hybrid and sometimes as a parallel depending on when it is most efficient. Honda's doing all it can but the problem is that gas is too cheap currently. Hence, the immense popularity of gas guzzling SUVs over far better driving, more practical sedans and mini-vans.
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  8. Viking79

    Viking79 Well-Known Member

    My hunch is the Clarity has PHEV and BEV versions because they weren't selling enough of the FCV versions. After 5 years they might sell 5,000 FCV, maybe 10,000 BEV, and maybe 60,000 PHEV. I honestly think it is to help cover losses from the FCV and BEV variants of the platform. The BEV and FCV lease so cheaply, they can't be making any money on those (other than off credits).
    Benjin and Kendalf like this.
  9. JimW

    JimW Active Member

    It's all about where to put the batteries. A PHEV with decent EV range requires a lot more battery capacity (and physical size) than a hybrid. The reason we sit up so high in our Clarity's is that we are sitting on top of a large battery pack. The batteries also create the hump in the trunk, but a compromise was made so that we have a decent size trunk for a practical family sedan. The Volt creatively puts a lot of battery in the large center tunnel.

    I doubt that Honda is making any money off the PHEV's. This is a research investment in the alt fuel vehicle program, and also satisfies some government incentives for investment in alt fuel vehicles.
  10. Kendalf

    Kendalf Active Member

    Yes, it seems that the Clarity was originally intended only as a FCV. When Honda was promoting the Clarity concept vehicles it was always only described as a FCV. It was probably pretty late in the design stage when corporate decided to try to get more back from the Clarity FCV development platform and add the BEV and PHEV variants, and now Honda is hoping they have hit upon a sweet combination with the Clarity PHEV in setting the goal to sell so many, even when it was not the original intent.

    I for one like the clean look of the Insight Prototype, but at the same time I've grown to appreciate quirky (yet functional) design cues that show that a car is distinct. The Insight pretty much looks like an everyday smaller Accord (which is probably Honda's intent).
    Viking79 likes this.
  11. bfd

    bfd Active Member

    I'm not sure what to think about all these carmakers finally deciding to get on the electric bandwagon. Unless there's a huge change in the fossil fuel flow - it feels like an unnecessary direction. Maybe having one model line for research and development - as a just in case model - is wise. Wholesale changeover of fleets to EV and/or PHEV seems unlikely. I don't think the alternate fuel market is going to get off the ground. CNG vehicles do seem to have found a place, but I don't see a meaningful challenge by any other kind (hydrogen fuel cell for example). I suppose another gas crisis like we saw in the 70s might create a reason, however.
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