Premature range loss

Discussion in 'Hyundai Kona Electric' started by 170/daykonaguy, May 19, 2019.

  1. 170/daykonaguy

    170/daykonaguy New Member

    I've had my Kona EV since March 2019. After about 5000km in the Toronto area (75% highway) I noticed that after a full charge I now only have 386km vs 415km range in Eco+ mode a 7% drop in range.
    I've never used a DC fast charger and use either the supplied 120V charger or a 240V 30amp (7.2 KW) L2 home charger. I've always charged to 100% bacause the dealer didnt say otherwise
    Is anyone else seeing premature range loss in their 64kW Kona EV?
  2. My guess, and it's truly only a guess, is that your GOM has gotten a few more data points as you've driven more and has recalculated your range downward. My guess (again) is that, if your driving behavior remains the same, you will see it increase once the warm weather settles in. If you read past posts the Ontario Kona drivers have mostly been sub 400km vs our western and southern friends who seem to breeze past 450ish.

    * Let me add that I started with 440 the day I picked up my car. Dropped almost immediately to about 360+ in the depths of winter and up to 6000km. Now at 7500km, with warmer weather my GOM is +430 regularly. Identical driving patterns throughout ownership. Things change.
    Last edited: May 19, 2019
  3. I agree w/ Wildeyed but there is an app (if you have a smartphone) called Torque pro combined with a bluetooth dongle (OBD2) that can tell you the actual capacity, temp and cell voltages, Research with Plord on the UK forum and Github.
    Might be worth the time.
    Last edited: May 19, 2019
    Kitsilano likes this.
  4. 170/daykonaguy

    170/daykonaguy New Member

    Thanks Wildeyed. I hope your theory re the GOM is right. The funny thing is that during the period March to end of April when it was still really cold the range always showed 415km after a100% charge. Naturally I never got 415km because the climate control was banging and the battery heating system was running.
    Now that the weather has gotten warmer I was expecring to get the advertized range but was surprized to see the only at 386km showing as projected fange after a full charge.
  5. Another warmer night. My GOM was 440 this morning. Highest ever. The climb is slow but undeniable. I hope it continues. And I am a near perfect test subject because I'm such a creature of habit (boring!) that my driving habits do not change at all so the baseline for comparison is near constant.
  6. Konan the Explorer

    Konan the Explorer New Member

    Absolutely not to worry, this is completely normal in my experience. We live 25 km from town on an 80km/hr road and if all we do is go back and forth to our local town our range right now at 100% charge is best case 495 km so far. If we head out on the freeway for a long road trip and the road is rated for 110km/hr our estimated range when we complete our next full charge will only show 440-450 km as the GOM (guess o meter) has now decided that all future trips will be at 110km/hr and so has adjusted the range estimate based on that. We have had our car since January and when it was colder we were getting estimates in the 380ish km range. There are many factors that change the estimated range, outside temperature, speed of travel is a big one as wind resistance becomes an issue, heating, and air conditioning use. Hope this helps
  7. XtsKonaTrooper

    XtsKonaTrooper Active Member

    I live in Western Ontario and the most my GOM has said is 413 but since getting it on 2 may, it started at 386.
  8. 170/daykonaguy

    170/daykonaguy New Member

    You guys are all awesome .
    I'm glad I signed up to the forum to check in with other Kona owners. Like Wildeyed, I'm a routine 'to work and back driver'. I didn't realize the car was customizing the range to my driving habits and was predicting the range after a charge. Ill continue to charge to 100% vs 80% As I though I was harming the battery doing full charges. From what I read the battery management system looks after the battery behind the scene and charging to 100% in L1 or L2 does no harm.
    Domenick likes this.
  9. If you're driving a set commute why not document details at the start and end to help characterise the EV? Odometer, ambient temp and SoC are figures that you can rely on. You could add the GoM as well but only for amusement since it's calibration seems to change based on phases of the moon. Frankly, it's like telling time with a sundial when you have a watch in your pocket.
    electriceddy likes this.
  10. I'll speak only for myself here and say that, frankly, I don't really care all that much. I appreciate that there are real "car people" and Battery nerds who eat this kind of stuff up and I appreciate their enthusiasm and their posts. But going much beyond watching changes in the projected range is too much like math! I just want to drive - and get back home!:)

    And I do have interest in figuring out how I can get the most satisfactory performance out of the car.
    Last edited: May 20, 2019
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  11. My suggestion was really directed at the OP, not yourself. It might be fun to speculate but if you want facts you need solid evidence.
  12. KonaTom

    KonaTom Active Member

  13. I agree with the previous comments that this is most likely the result of your driving habits. An easy way to check is to keep an eye on kilometers per kWh. I'm in the U.S. so it's miles per kWh for me. I reset the "accumulated info" after every charge. This allows me to see how I did on miles per kWh since the prior charge and it never fails that when I get a very high expected range, my miles per kWh was very high (over 4), and vice versa.
    electriceddy and fiercely like this.
  14. Keep in mind I am still waiting for my Kona so you can totally ignore my comments. Also it probably does not make a huge difference to you folks in the States with the lifetime battery pack warranty. Alas, its only 8 years 160,000 km( it has to have more than 70% degradation) for us in Canada. Nonetheless when my Kona comes I will generally charge to a max of 85% and try not to run it down more 20% (unless I am on a trip and really need that extra 15+%) That will theoretically give me around 240 + km of range and approximately 3 charges per week during the summer which is more than enough for my needs. My research seems to imply there is likely a 9% buffer between the real capacity and the displayed virtual capacity of the Kona. The chemistry and battery management in Hyundai seems similar to Tesla. In the very least it not hugely different. This is what Tesla has to say about " factors affecting cycle life are tied to how the cell is used. In particular:

    1. Avoiding very high and very low states of charge. Voltages over 4.15V/cell (about 95 percent state of charge [SOC]) and voltages below 3.00V/cell (about 2 percent SOC) cause more stress on the insides of the cell (both physical and electrical). Avoiding very high charge rates. Charging faster than about C/2 (two hour charge) can reduce the cell’s life.
    2. Avoiding charging at temperatures below 0° C. (Our design heats the pack before charging at cold temperatures.)
    3. Avoiding very high discharge rates. (Our pack has been designed such that even at maximum discharge rate, the current required from each cell is not excessive.)"
    No matter how good the battery is, it has a finite amount of charge cycles, you can improve that amount or decrease degradation by limiting how high much voltage the cell sees during charging( pretty much synonymous with the percentage of charge ). Generally and among other things 100% state of charge and a very low state of charge are battery killers. That said in the Kona a displayed 100% state of charge is the virtual battery display and more likely represents a real 95% state charge in consideration of the previously mentioned buffer. But even if you keep the buffer in mind you will get less degradation if you charge to a lower state of charge. Its up you to decide if you really need 100% range all the time or if you could get by with a lower max charge.

    If you want more information that just the sunny propaganda the car displays look at getting a OBD bluetooth dongle an app like EVnotify that will give you real time BMS state of charge, voltages and pack temperature. I am going to get base line readings and compare to when the battery eventually degrades, hopefully not prematurely.
    eastpole and electriceddy like this.
  15. Hadn't even considered EV notify or heard of it, but I like the temp display options:
    Thanks for that, now if I can only get my 3 yr old cell to run the program I will be happy
  16. XtsKonaTrooper

    XtsKonaTrooper Active Member

    Just installed it...once the SO is back with the vehicle.
    Gonna have to check it out, as i already have a dongle, i use on the BMW.
  17. Guess my phone is a little older than 3 years as it runs Android 2.3.6 The minimum is 4.1 and I guess they are all the way to 10 now.
    Let us know how it (EVNotify) runs and may be worthy of a separate thread .
    In the meantime I will shop for a new cheap unblocked phone to run the program:(
  18. XtsKonaTrooper

    XtsKonaTrooper Active Member

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  19. XtsKonaTrooper

    XtsKonaTrooper Active Member

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  20. XtsKonaTrooper

    XtsKonaTrooper Active Member

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