Precondition on LVL 1 vs. LVL 2 Charger

Discussion in 'Clarity' started by Bina12834, Dec 5, 2018.

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  1. Bina12834

    Bina12834 Member

    So this morning I decided to precondition while plugged in via the Honda provided LVL 1 charging cable. The HondaLink app showed the interior temp at 34 degrees F. After the 30 mins of precondition the interior temp was only at 45 degrees F. I would think that 30 mins of preconditioning would bring the interior temp up more than 11 degrees F. Does the preconditioning perform better while on a LVL 2 charger vs LVL 1?
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  3. jorgie393

    jorgie393 Well-Known Member

    Yes, at cold temperatures level 1 may well not be enough. In a prior more general thread I reported that when the car starts at interior & exterior temp 57 (garage), the preconditioning sips only 0.31 kwH total in the 30 minutes. When the car starts at interior & exterior temp mid 20s (parked outside), even the level 2 charger ran at nearly full tilt for the first 15 min and then tapered some: gulped a total of 2.3 kwh (!!) in the 30 minutes. [I had left heat on "High" as part of this test but I am pretty sure the car ignored this during preconditioning and went to 75].

    Since a level 1 charger can only deliver 0.7 kWH in that same 30 min, it would presumably not be enough to warm the car fully. Also depends how much it diverts energy to warming the car interior vs. warming the battery.

    See the comments in thread “Cold weather behaviour and observations”, started by Vezz66, which is more general but has a few things on this topic.

    Sent from my iPhone using Inside EVs
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2018
  4. MNSteve

    MNSteve Well-Known Member

    I've been looking for a justification to install a Level 2 charger . . .
  5. ClarityDoc

    ClarityDoc Active Member

    This morning preconditioning took my car (parked outside, connected to ChargePoint 32A EVSE) from 27 to 70 degrees F, drawing ~ 2.2 kWh and fully defrosting my windows front and back. No scraping!

    EV range estimate 54 miles, btw...

    Sent using Inside EVs mobile app
  6. Bina12834

    Bina12834 Member

    This is definitely adds to the list of positives for getting a LVL 2 charger. My problem is that I'm only going to be in the house I'm currently in for another 6 months while my new house gets built. I was planning on getting the JuiceBox Pro 40 (the plug-in style, not hardwire) for the garage of my new house, but is it worth it to have an electrician install a NEMA 14-50 plug on the outside of my temp house and buying the JuiceBox now and taking it with me to the new house?
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  8. insightman

    insightman Well-Known Member Subscriber

    So many factors to consider: How far do you drive your Clarity each day? Do you make multiple trips from home with time for a Level 2 EVSE to make a difference between trips? Can your existing electric service and circuit-breaker box handle another 40 amps? Is the location of the potential EVSE very far from the circuit-breaker box? How expensive are electricians in your area? Will it bug you to burn more gas in HV mode to warm the interior of your Clarity while avoiding the costs associated with installing a Level 2 EVSE? By the time you've analyzed all these factors, your new home will be ready.
  9. Bina12834

    Bina12834 Member


    Uhh...I havent had to use HV mode other than when my battery was empty.
  10. Tom Moloughney

    Tom Moloughney InsideEVs Staff Subscriber

    That's what I would do if I were you. Installing a simple 14-50 outlet seems to cost less in many instances than asking the electrician to hardwire an EVSE. It doesn't make sense, but it does seem to work out that way. Then you just unplug the JuiceBox and take it with you to your next residence. Another benifit from having a plug-in is that if there's ever any problem with it, you just unplug and send it back. You don't have to call the electirican again and have him disconnect it and re-connect the new one. I've had my JuiceBox for three years now and it's a great unit. eMotorWerks usually had good Holiday deals, so keep an eye out.
  11. Pushmi-Pullyu

    Pushmi-Pullyu Well-Known Member

    Yup. In some other forums, not discussing the Clarithy PHEV, I've seen complaints that so much of the energy from a L1 charger went to heating the car and/or the battery pack that there was hardly any left over for actually charging the battery, so even after several hours on the charger the car had not gained much EV range.

    It does not at all surprise me that this also applies to the Clarity PHEV.

    Those who live in mild climates, such as the coastal areas of California, can likely get away with using L1 chargers year-round. But those of use who live in more temperate climates, where it really does get very cold on some wintry days, a L2 charger may be a necessity rather than a luxury.

    But as has already been said above, it's best to ask an electrician to check out your home's wiring. Some homes, especially older ones, may need a significant (i.e., expensive) upgrade to the main circuit-breaker box and/or the wiring before a L2 charger can be installed.

    And don't be afraid to ask for 2 or 3 estimates. It's amazing how much difference there can be in what different electricians charge... even fully qualified ones.

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  13. Tom Moloughney

    Tom Moloughney InsideEVs Staff Subscriber

    Absolutely agree. You can try Qmerit for free estimates. I did a post on them here on InsideEVs. They have installers all over and offer quick estimates (usually within 24hrs of you calling)
    Domenick likes this.
  14. Claire Green

    Claire Green Member

    It was my understanding that preconditioning is not possible when hooked up to Lv1
  15. jorgie393

    jorgie393 Well-Known Member

    It is, but only once done charging (or if you interrupt the charging).

    Sent from my iPhone using Inside EVs
  16. RogerB

    RogerB Active Member

    I definitely notice an increase in noise (which I'm interpreting as an increase in pre-conditioning power) when I unplug from my L1 charger, even when the battery is fully charged. It must be trying to keep the battery full and doesn't have much left over to power the PC. It warms it up just enough for me.
  17. Breezy

    Breezy Member

    I've tried this several times using both the fob and hondalink. I've never gotten preconditioning to work. The car was done charging (L1) and still plugged in.
  18. KentuckyKen

    KentuckyKen Well-Known Member

    Sorry you’re having problems getting it to precondition. It’s a real treat when it works on a cold morning.
    Remember that it has a temperature range for both inside and outside of the car that must be met for it to turn on and that several have mentioned that it has a delay before it starts. Also, opening the driver’s door will cancel it.
    Could any of these criteria be a source of your problem? Sorry I don’t have any more help to offer, but I’ve only preconditioned on a Level 2 EVSE.
    Attached are the temperature ranges that have to be met:

    Attached Files:

  19. weave

    weave Active Member

    I've preconditioned on level 2 and level 1. I've noticed the car gets nice and warm inside while plugged into level 2 but does not on level 1. But the fluid must be fairly warm at least since soon as I start driving the fan comes on fairly high and blows warm air.
  20. Breezy

    Breezy Member

    Thank you KentuckyKen. We definitely met the temp requirements--it was under 30 degrees F outside and not much warmer inside (the car is not garaged). Hadn't entered the car yet on those attempts, just made sure the charge light was off and it was fully (level 1) charged. Left it for 15-30 minutes each time and no sign of heat having been on. We had the climate set for 65 degrees so it should have done something. Even tried it with the charger unplugged one time and it still didn't work. I need to troubleshoot more.
  21. Breezy

    Breezy Member

    Is it possible it was too cold outside on our attempts and the car just started pre- preconditioning???
  22. David Towle

    David Towle Active Member

    I have no intention of installing a level 2 charger, my garage has 2 walls common to the heated areas and temperature stays above 40F pretty much all the time. So 2 basic level 1 questions which I'm 95% sure I know the answer to:
    1. The manual says don't charge when wet, yet the charge cover door seems to let plenty of water cover the plug. OK to just plug in when wet or should I towel off each time?
    2. The manual says don't leave the charger plugged in. So far I've just left it plugged into the wall, is that ok?
  23. LAF

    LAF Active Member

    I use the level 1 charger in Boston all time to preheat the car in the morning. As long as it has fully charged the night before and is still plugged in I can get from 25F to 50F and deicing windows in 30 min leaving a full charge. Maybe its faster with level 2 but by the time you pay extra to the electrician and the cord it will cost $600-$700.

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